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3rd party 2024 and end the 2 party illusion of choice
Id rather see ranked choice first
As far as I'm concerned, ranked choice or something similar is a prerequisite for ending the two party stranglehold.
The two parties in power are just tickled that you think that way. Keep waiting, it's coming!
Neither party will ever allow that to happen so... game over.
Voting 3rd party in '24 will only help Trump win by taking votes from his opposition. This is not the time to try to make a statement with your vote.
As others noted, if you want to break the 2 party system, support ranked choice voting. Alaska has it, why not in your state? Get involved. Make it happen.
This feels really unamerican to say.
I do agree that rank choice would be more effective, but as a voter sometimes my vote is all I have to voice my opinion.
I get that, but allowing Trump to win this cycle will have far ranging effects on every cycle AFTER this.
That being said, if you're in a "safe" state? Feel free to vote how you want. It's the tossup states where we have to worry.
No one is responsible for someone elses vote. No one 'allows' trump to win. Either you vote for him or you don't. But making someones elses vote my poblem is like me accusing Biden voters of sending weapons to Israel themselves. Tell you what ill take that trade. If Biden voters want to accept that they are necessarily responsible for empowering him to finance genocide, I'll say third party voters get to be responsible for Trump. All 2% of them. All their fault and no one elses.
If you're gonna make third party voters responsible for other peoples votes, the least that could be done is to also be responsible for the guy you actually voted for. Sad truth is most people want to vote to wash themselves of any responsibility. Same energy as those who vote for Biden then completly stop paying attention to politics for the next three years. Wow I wonder why things are still so bad a polarized . . .
Voters who would otherwise vote for a Democratic candidate, allowing themselves to be lured away by candidates who have 0 chance of winning, hurt Bidens position and strengthen Trumps position.
Say you have just Trump and Biden. They split the vote 45/55.
Trumps vote isn't going anywhere. We know that, they're dedicated.
Now you throw in RFK who takes 8 points. Stein takes 5. West takes 3.
Trump 45
Biden 39
RFK 8
Stein 5
West 3
Trump wins.
'allowing themselves to be lured away'
If they usually vote Democrat but dont because they like someone better, thats an issue with the the candidate the democts ran. No party is owed a vote because they got it last cycle. Choosing the candidate you like more is how voting works. And if everyone simply decided to wake up and vote that way, democracy wold be working better. Which bring us back to the point that you can only be responsible for your own vote. Voting as if you're responsible for what others are choosing is illogical and it's no wonder that decades of that has gotten us here.
Then who do you suggest to be the Democratic Primary over Biden. Everyone demands this, but offer no alternative.
Rashida Tlaib. Next question.
Not a great choice at all tbh.
Whatever you say, polls aren't exactly making Biden look like a great choice either. He's gonna need a lot of luck if Michigan goes back to red. At least my idea stops that from happening.
Eh, not really
Polls really don't matter this early in the election year. But you do you.
So the polls don't matter but you're sure Tlaib is a bad choice because of what exactly? Your gut? Sounds contradictory, but you do you.
No, she isn't the strongest candidate to go against Trump.
So your gut.
It's not about getting a vote because of the last cycle, it's about getting a vote to defeat Trump.
Nobody else is going to do it, it's Biden or nobody.
Voting for RFK/Stein/West because "Genocide Joe" only enables Trump, who not only is a more extreme Israel supporter, but plans on bringing their worst policies to the United States.
Remember when Israel illegally invaded Southern Lebanon?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon
Trump wants to do the same thing with Mexico:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/donald-trump-mexico-military-cartels-war-on-drugs-1234705804/
These people don't give a shit. They'll be the same people that'll blame democrats for "letting this happen" when trump wins. The irony will be lost on them.
It is the Democrats fault if they lose elections. It's not the job of the voters to vote for Democrats, its the job of the Democrats to apeal to voters. This is basic civics. If a party doesn't appeal to enough voters, who's fault is that?
Preach
This logic only makes sense if you don't understand basic game theory, which you obviously don't. By voting 3rd party you are guaranteeing the worst possible outcome. You are responsible for that in a game theoretical sense whether or not you are responsible for how other people vote.
tHiS lOgIc OnLy MaKeS sEnSe If YoU dOn’T uNdErStAnD bAsIc GaMe ThEoRy
I voted third party last time, are you insinuating Biden winning is the worst possible outcome or is your argument just full of BS? Also if my thrid party vote is responsible for that outcome then my third party vote was responsible for Biden so congrats, using your logic I voted for your guy.
Maybe, but I'm old enough to remember this same rhetoric around the GW Bush election too. All the Nazi and fascist comparisons included. The US didn't collapse, and we even got Obama after that.
Not a trump supporter at all, but as a normie and talking to other normies, this messaging of "biden or die" isn't working as well as these echo chambers make it seem.
Bush didn't have the 2025 plan that Trump has now, and Bush wasn't facing legal threats (though by all rights he SHOULD have been!)
The only reason Trump didn't go full authoritarian in his first term was that he didn't expect to win and had no plan. It will be far worse this time.
That's possible. My perspective is that he didn't get things done the first time because he's not an effective leader or delegator.
I don't believe that Trump is fueled by passion or ideals to change the country, its about popularity and playing the game.
He had "plans" for things like The Wall and Locking Her Up, then quickly dropped both of those things. His perceived passion for Hillary is especially notable to me and how quickly he "let her off the hook" after winning. Telling his base to move on and forget it.
What he did with the supreme court will likely be his legal legacy in my opinion. And a lasting one, no doubt.
Oh yeah, and not just the supremes, but the judiciary in GENERAL.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Donald_Trump
"The total number of Trump Article III judgeship nominees to be confirmed by the United States Senate was 234, including three associate justices of the Supreme Court of the United States, 54 judges for the United States courts of appeals, 174 judges for the United States district courts, and three judges for the United States Court of International Trade."
Bush didn't actively try to overthrow the fuckin government.
Somebody doesn't understand basic game theory. A 3rd party will guarantee the worst outcome. The system does need to be reformed, but you can't do it that way.
The one party system will never allow ranked-choice voting. Burn it down.