I’m the chimney sweep now!
this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2024
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But we already got rid of child chimney sweepers without getting rid of capitalism
The point is that capitalism prioritizes profit, not the welfare of people. This is only not done anymore because of regulation, not because capitalism was fixed. It can't be fixed. The target goal of capitalism is wrong. Profit does not optimize for innovation, welfare, happiness, or anything else that could be called good. It will always exploit people as much as it can, and it just happens to not exploit children (in the western world (legally)) because we made it not allowed, and disobeying that law would be less profitable.
Seems like regulations are the fix.
Capitalism is unsustainable by design, there is no fix to that
shouldn't we come up with a system where the core values don't need regulation. it becomes unthinkable to exploit children not because of regulation and enforcement but because the system in itself denies power to exploiters.
Is there any system besides capitalism with regulations we have in developed countries without child labor? Child labor existed in the Soviet Union and in communist China. Historically the idea that children should not perform labor is very recent.
Profit motive and greed are stronger. https://www.npr.org/2023/02/26/1157368469/child-labor-violations-increase-states-loosen-rules
Capitalism is insanely efficient in allocating capital and setting prices – two things incredibly difficult to do otherwise. At the same time it has the problem of protecting the weakest. But that can be tackled by regulation – which has been pretty effective in the EU for example.
What kind of system would you prefer?
Capitalism is moderately efficient in allocating Capital and setting prices for the purpose of generating profits. Capitalism is pretty terrible when it comes to actually improving society, and the EU still sees massive problems.
Worker Ownership of the Means of Production is a better alternative, whether that be along the lines of Anarcho-Syndicalism, Market Socialism, Democratic Socialism, Marxism, Council Communism, or so forth.
Don't worry give some states a couple of years and I'm sure we'll see child chimney sweepers come back 😉
Businesses in the Midwest US have already been hiring 10-12 year old undocumented kids to work overnight cleaning machine parts at meatpacking plants. I mean… so many different things wrong with that. The psycho fuckers who run these businesses need some real penalties, like jail time and dissolving their company.
Through labor organization. It wasn't out of the goodness of the hearts of benevolent Capitalists, but through struggles of Workers. The point of this picture isn't that Capitalism used to be worse, and fixed itself, but that Capitalists will absolutely take advantage of children and subject them to sacrificing their bodies for clean chimneys if it makes a profit.
The takeaway from this is that Capitalists cannot be seen as individual humans with values, but as cogs in the Capitalist machine that will exploit everything and everyone for profit. An individual Capitalist may not be willing to go that far, but inevitably as long as there is profit to be made, someone will fill that gap.
That's why economic systems need to be looked at at aggregates and not as individual transactions. You miss the forest for the trees.
We just got rid of chimney sweeps in general.
Despite us regulating child labor it seems like profit motives and greed overpower regulatory measures.
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/26/1157368469/child-labor-violations-increase-states-loosen-rules
What about all the places where it has been made illegal and will remain so?
At one point they probably said it would remain illegal in the places they're trying to legalize it.
Now we only have child miners, child slaughter house workers, child assembly line workers, child scrapyard garbage collectors, ...
we just moved child labour to less developed countries. we didn't get rid of anything. you just don't see it, but child labour is still going strong in the world. child slavery as well.
No WE did not. The people in those countries where it still happens allowed it to still happen.
None of us have any decisionmaking power to control what those countries do, so the burden to fix those problems is on those countries who allow it.
It's 100% a consequence of Capitalism, though. You're blaming developing nations for the willful exploitation international Corporations commit and you personally benefit from.
That's just your opinion. The fact is that those developing nations should have child labor laws in place, and proper enforcement of those laws to prevent children from being exploited. The blame belongs squarely on those who allow it, and I reject any personal responsibility for any of that because I have no control over the laws of any country.
Are you 14? You don't seem to understand how global trade works
It is not my opinion that international corporations brutally exploit the third world, it's a fact. It is also not my opinion that Capitalism leads to this, the profit motive inevitably leads to it.
You claiming that developing nations should just fight against international corporations brutally exploiting them and absolving yourself of any responsibility you have for it is just sticking your head in the sand. If you aren't boycotting Nestlé, you're supporting them.
The "good" news is that there is no ethical consumption under Capitalism. You individually cannot do much, except protect, organize, and try your best to support less unethical companies whenever you can. However, to blame developing countries for corporations knowingly brutally exploiting them and offering no alternative is absolutely baffling.
Yeah those countries just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and start being productive members of the world.
I know we could help them out so they don't have to go through all the hard times alone and without the knowledge we have, but fuck em hahahahahaha
But we are sharing knowledge and sending both aid and capital there. A lot of the countries are industrialized to the degree they are with the capital. Nobody acts in a vacuum these days.
We could be doing more for sure but we're not doing nothing.
Pretty hard to export child chimney sweeps to other countries
Ah yes and there is no other child labour anywhere in the world at all anymore
I think they're saying that things can improve even within capitalism. And they have. But child labour still exists.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/02/20/meat-packing-plant-child-labor-fines/11304311002/
But we haven't gotten rid of child labor even in the US