this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2024
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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  • Systemd-init has a larger attack surface compared to runit, openrc, or sysVinit.

  • Systemd-logind relies on systemd, so we need to adapt it for non-systemD distributions to ensure compatibility with certain applications like GNOME.

  • Udev also depends on systemd.

  • SystemD is specific to Linux, which makes porting software to *BSD even more challenging. It's uncertain what the future holds, and there may be circumstances where Linux becomes unusable for you (e.g., compatibility issues with your laptop). Having a good alternative that doesn't require relearning everything is generally beneficial.

  • SystemD-based distributions often come with more than just "systemd-init." They include additional components like logind, resolved, networkd, systemd-timers, etc. However, many people still prefer using the alternatives they were accustomed to before systemd became popular, such as dhcpcd and cron. Consequently, having both sets of tools installed can increase the attack surface.

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[–] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago (14 children)
  • Systemd-init has a larger attack surface compared to runit, openrc, or sysVinit.

So what? Linux Kernel has an even larger attack surface, the size of the attack surface is a moot point without examples of attacks being made

  • Systemd-logind relies on systemd, so we need to adapt it for non-systemD distributions to ensure compatibility with certain applications like GNOME.

Yes, systemd modules depend on systemd, that's like complaining that a GUI application depends on X.

  • Udev also depends on systemd.

It doesn't, that's ridiculous, several distros don't use systemd and still have udev

  • SystemD is specific to Linux, which makes porting software to *BSD even more challenging. It's uncertain what the future holds, and there may be circumstances where Linux becomes unusable for you (e.g., compatibility issues with your laptop). Having a good alternative that doesn't require relearning everything is generally beneficial.

If your laptop doesn't run Linux it will not run BSD since BSD has less hardware compatibility than Linux. Also BSD is a different system, you'll need to relearn a lot of things, how to enable services is just one of them, and a pretty small one at that. And Finally there are forks of systemd that work on BSD, the reason it's not used there is not technical.

  • SystemD-based distributions often come with more than just "systemd-init." They include additional components like logind, resolved, networkd, systemd-timers, etc. However, many people still prefer using the alternatives they were accustomed to before systemd became popular, such as dhcpcd and cron. Consequently, having both sets of tools installed can increase the attack surface.

Again, more attack surface does not mean anything, to add to that example most people use the precompiled kernel that comes with their distro instead of compiling a leaner one to diminish attack surface, because that's irrelevant. You could have said let's your system bloated which would be a somewhat valid point, the answer being if the person cared they would uninstall one of the alternatives, but you chose the most insignificant aspect of this, if there's a vulnerability in your computer it's 99.99999% coming from whatever you exposed in that computer, e.g. SSH, Nextcloud, etc, chances of an attack coming through systemd are so ridiculously small it's not even worth mentioning, and if ever someone discovers an escalation privilege or something similar on systemd the fact that everyone uses it will make the fix available in 24h on most major distros.

There are reasons to hate on systemd, but you didn't provided a single valid one.

[–] Unsafe@discuss.online -4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

It doesn't, that's ridiculous, several distros don't use systemd and still have udev

Void uses eudev. Alpine uses eudev. Gentoos uses udev with patches. What non-systemd distros use vanilla udev?

[–] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Ah, so with udev you meant systemd-udev, in that case the answer is the same as systemd-login, complaining that a systemd module doesn't work outside of systemd is ridiculous.

[–] Unsafe@discuss.online -3 points 9 months ago

See the answer on your logind statement.

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