this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2023
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It Took 36,000 Gallons Of Water To Extinguish A Burning Tesla (jalopnik.com)
submitted 10 months ago by dragontamer@lemmy.world to c/realtesla@lemmy.world
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A new crash recently in Alabama, but a reminder to something that we all know. Burning Teslas are far more difficult to extinguish than any other car.

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[–] GetriFriedRisa@startrek.website 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Phosphate will decompose into phosphate ions and oxygen given enough energy. The energy of the P--O bond is greater than Co--O but ultimately means that LFP batteries are also self-oxidizing but less so than lithium cobalt oxide

Reference

  1. Nature of PO Bonds in Phosphates Benjamin Gamoke, Diane Neff, and Jack Simons The Journal of Physical Chemistry A 2009 113 (19), 5677-5684
[–] Nomecks@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Find me any proof of any lifepo4 cells having a self-oxidizing event. Spoiler alert: you can't, because there's no reaction that can happen with lifepo4 that will strip oxygen out of phosphate. UL listed companies sell lifepo4 batteries as non-combustible. I highly recommend looking into modern battery chemistry, becase they're way safer than people think.

[–] GetriFriedRisa@startrek.website 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

There's plenty of proof in academic literature. FePO4 is quite stable because of the quirks in iron's valance up to about 500C. But the combination of of lithium skews the valance effects at high temperatures to start losing oxygen at 250C.

Please review the following literature for more information:

  1. C. Delacourt, P. Poizot, J-.M. Tarascon, and C. Masquelier, Nat Mater., 4, 254 (2005).
  2. J.L Dodd, R. Yazami, and B. Fultz, Electrochem. Solid-State Let., 9, A151 (2006).
  3. G. Chen, .XSong, and T. J. Richardson, J. Electrochem. Soc,. 154, 4627 (2007).
[–] Nomecks@lemmy.ca -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

How much oxygen are we talking here? I'm guessing not much, as they wouldn't be allowed to sell lifepo4 batteries as non combustible if they had any real chance of causing a self sustaining fire. So level with me so I don't have to trudge through a bunch of academic papers: How much oxygen do they mention?

[–] GetriFriedRisa@startrek.website 4 points 10 months ago

The stoichometry comes out with 2:1 moles of lfp to diatomic oxygen which is significant

The combustibility you're referring to is a legal definition not a scientific one