this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
401 points (77.0% liked)
Memes
45739 readers
1225 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The mere fact that humans are 1% removed from apes serves to undermine creationism in general.
We're not talking about creationism or any particular brand of theism
Considering that the overwhelming majority of religions out there are creationists, yes we are.
I understand your point and I feel like maybe I'm sounding a little argumentative. Sorry let me try to be more clear.
I understand your argument is that genetic evidence disproves existing religious beliefs that people have but that's a different argument to the point I was making.
Even if all global religions are incorrect, that doesn't mean that a god or gods couldn't hypothetically exist and my point is that there is no demonstrative proof of that either way.
If you check the original comment again, the question was about whether "a god(s) exist" and up until they mentioned the 99% that I was disputing, religion didn't even come into it.
You could disprove every creationist claim, every anti-evolution argument, and you'd be right, but you can't settle the question of "whether a supernatural being exists" because there simply isn't a way to do that within the natural realm that we know of.
It isn't just about God either. The simulation and Boltzmann brain hypotheses are similarly immeasurable
They aren't immeasurable. The reason you think I'm making a different argument to your point is that you're asking for every negative proof. This is never going to provide an answer, as it would be a competition to dispel the imagination.
Hypotheses and positive proofs are slowly answering the question of why we're here. We know that evolution is likely, DNA is irrefutable evidence. We know that it's likely our known universe began with a singularity because of the background microwave radiation accelerating away from a point of origin. We know the field and corresponding particle that gave matter its properties from the particle acceleration tests by CERN.
It becomes a much different question when one is not only seeking answers that fit their beliefs.
No
You say it's not immeasurable but then all of the things you go on to describe are within the known universe, we can't possibly know or measure what's outside of it, because it is not known by definition.
I'm not asking for negative proofs in fact I haven't asked for proof of anything, I'm not sure where you got that from. I've simply stated that we can't draw statistics about things for which we have no evidence - which you now seem to be agreeing with.
I said you were making a different argument because you originally talked about existing religions which isn't what my comment or the original comment was about, I stand by that - nothing of what you had said was relevant to my response.
You can't possibly know that it's over 99% unlikely that the universe isn't a simulation or that it wasn't created by some entity since we don't yet have evidence pertaining to any hypothesis for how it was created. The statistic was pulled out of the air and has no scientific basis.
Do I think the universe is a giant Boltzmann brain or was created by an omniscient God? No, I don't, but it's still pointless to pretend it's something we can have any certainty about.
Not to be rude but this conversation isn't going anywhere, whether you don't understand or just don't agree, whatever I guess...
I think you're forgetting that the supernatural is but another theory, put forth by humans, to explain our existence. It doesn't earn bonus points for being unobservable. I've seen 0 evidence supporting it, contrary to how many questions particle physics has solved.
I've posited quite the opposite of this. If there are two opposing theories, with one substantiated and one not, then the substantiated one is more likely. For example: you wouldn't say that a chicken's offspring being implanted in an egg by cosmic rays is just as likely as the egg being fertilized before it was laid because the latter is substantiated while the former has yet to have any observable truth.
I'd say 99% is a completely fair probability as the ratio of something to nothing approaches infinity.
I just gave you some? I don't know about you, but humans being able to replicate the exact particle that originated matter is a profound bit of evidence towards the universe not being a product of some higher power to me.