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this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2023
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Meaningless, he’ll never carry California, but liberals are setting a precedent that I guarantee will be used against them later.
Yes, if a Dem president incites an insurrection against the United States of America to illegally stay in power, I would absolutely support removing them from the ballot.
Liberals are weak fascist enablers but that take is not it lmfao
Fully agreed, but what if a Dem president is “allegedly” inciting an insurrection? In terms of electoral games, this is really one I would not want to play with the GOP. They will say that Biden is a traitor because he pulled troops from Afghanistan/the border/whatever other BS they can come up with.
With a conviction I would be fully in favour of removing Trump from the ballot. Without a conviction it’s just too easy for GOP to come up with a BS story. As a warning, many swing states are controlled by GOP.
So you're reasoning is that we shouldn't legitimately use the constitutional amendment to bar a criminal insurrectionist from running for president because other criminals may fraudulently use the same amendment in the future?
"If you legitimately try to stop the criminals with laws, those criminals may use those same laws illegitimately in the future" is not a reason to let them get away with their bullshit.
Far from it, and you are making exactly my point. I think a “criminal insurrectionist” (as in criminally convicted) should be removed from the ballot. Doing this to somebody who is not convicted opens the door to all kinds of shenanigans.
Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment does not expressly require a criminal conviction. In fact, there had not been a conviction in ANY of the instances where the amendment was invoked.
I agree with everything you said except it isn't liberals setting a precedent. It is literally the legal standard set forth by the CONSTITUTION.
You are, however, correct that the GOP terrorist organization that is larping as a political party will certainly try to use this as a way to further undermine democracy. The question then becomes, how do you fight an opponent that is hellbent on usurping the rules in order to take over the country by legal fiat?
Well, should a Liberal incite an insurrection against the United States, that precedent should be used against them.
Tennessee State General Assembly: I saw a Democrat with a Biden T-shirt set fire to a trash can! It’s totally justified to disqualify Biden!
My State will sadly pull some stupid stunt like this for sure. I get your sentiment but for a lot of us red States our government will absolutely trip over themselves to demonstrate their “hold my beer” skills.
That’s not to say Trump shouldn’t be disqualified, but boy oh boy is it opening a box that looks like no one should open it. I really hope SCOTUS comes back and says something like “it went through three different courts and because of THAT reason we’re up holding it.” Just simply saying “well States should decide” will pretty much mean I’ll never get to vote.
Red states can, and likely will try something like that, but SCOTUS should reverse the decision if it violates the U.S. constitution. States have tried messing with who can and can't be on the ballot before, and SCOTUS used the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment saying you can't arbitrarily keep a person off the ballot. SCOTUS might do the same for Colorado and California since Trump has not been found guilty of anything involving an insurrection yet. But yeah, if SCOTUS goes full "state's rights," saying states can mess with elections however they want, the U.S. will likely become more like a confederacy of sovereign states. And I think states that currently have red governors or legislatures have more electoral votes and house seats than blue states, so we would have a perpetual Republican federal government.
As I understand it, so far, the courts aren't disputing that Trump incited an insurrection, they're disputing if the 14th Amendment applies to the office of the President.
Does the 2nd ammendment apply to my AK-47 even though it's not explicitly determined in the wording? Then the 14th should also apply to office of the president.
They want to eat their cake and have it, and the hypocrisy doesn't matter to them at all. They use laws, procedure and precident when it helps their case. They blatantly ignore it the rest of the time.
The suit in Colorado was brought by 6 republicans.
what is the precedent? if you get yourself tagged as an insurrectionist, you cant be president?
or are you implying that conservatives are such outright, terrible human beings they would just lie in the future and call whomever they want an insurrectionist to keep them off the ballot? i think the morons down in texas already have that in progress
It definitely matters. Primaries exist. This article is specifically about the primary. He won the Republican primary in 2016 with nearly 75% of the vote.
Also, I'm pretty sure California awards the winner more delegates than any other state.
If that makes a difference, the RNC might just decide to go the DNC route and give themselves the power to ignore delegates and just pick a candidate if they so feel like.
It would have been used against them anyway, so they might as well use it where it actually applies.