this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2023
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Yes, in an ideal world, we would all live in walkable cities with great cycling and public transport.

But, particularly in North America, Australia, and New Zealand, we have been left with around 60 year's worth of car dependent suburban sprawl.

In quite a few metro areas, the inner city has a great public transport network. Yet once you get out to the suburbs, you're lucky to see a bus every half hour. Services often also start late and end early.

As a starting point, should there be more emphasis placed on upgrading suburban bus networks to a 10-minute frequency or better?

Better bus networks are less expensive upfront than large extensions to metro and heavy rail systems. And they can prove that demand exists, when it becomes available.

What are your thoughts?

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[–] poVoq 5 points 2 years ago (21 children)

These ideas tend to not work out that well, as the main cost-factor is often the bus-driver and increasing the frequency means hiring more drivers. I also think bus driving isn't exactly an enjoyable job as it can be quite monotonous, so increasing the number of such jobs is probably not such a great idea.

What might work to some extend is some sort of shared but on demand mini-bus taxi service, and of course potentially self-driving mini-buses, but really ultimately there is little one can do to solve the fundamental transport issue of low density housing in such suburbs.

[–] ajsadauskas@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (19 children)

Here's an example of the type of situation I'm thinking about.

The 806 bus is the main public transport options for a number of suburbs in outer Western Sydney

The problem is the timetable is infrequent. If you miss a bus, you're potentially waiting half an hour for the next one.

The bus is already there. It already runs. Just it's incredibly infrequent.

Improving the timetable so it runs every 10 minutes would be enough to encourage more people to use public transport, rather than driving.

And it can be accomplished at a fraction of the cost of a new underground metro or light rail.

A mini-bus taxi service won't do the trick. It's less than what's there already.

And we're not talking bus rapid transit here. Just a regular, reliable bus service with a decent frequency.

Yes, in an ideal world, suburbs such as the ones the 806 shouldn't exist. The fact they were built is a planning mistake.

Now that they do exist, is there a case that at least getting decent bus and cycling infrastructure should be more of a focus than it is in urbanist circles.

[–] No_One@kolektiva.social 2 points 2 years ago (5 children)

@ajsadauskas @poVoq
Busses can be useful and they can provide top-notch public transportation. To be effective and on time, they need designated lanes or streets that don't allow privately owned cars. May as well put streetcars in. They are quieter and cleaner.

[–] helle@tacobelllabs.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

@No_One @ajsadauskas @poVoq Almere, The Netherlands was designed with dedicated bus rights of way for 90% of their route. The reason trams weren't chosen was the expected population (trams carry 2x as many people) and the infrastructure cost that it adds. A concrete base, asphalt topped bus track is well under half the price due to the high cost of electrification.

[–] helle@tacobelllabs.net 2 points 2 years ago

@No_One @ajsadauskas @poVoq I would love them to upgrade to trams though then the right of way could be narrower and we could have grassed in tracks.

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