No, it's not a new thing. I get the impression I'm your age or slightly older, and I went to a primary school where if the teacher said your work was good, or you got an award, the whole class would chorus "shaaaame".

I guess this is one of those if you know, you know things - I remember a colleague whispering "ow, shaaame" to me as a joke once when there was an announcement that I got awarded a grant!

The fact you haven't heard of it illustrates my point that NZ schools are not all alike in the culture around learning.

If the difference between ok and good/great skills doesn’t impact people’s life outcomes (however we measure that), do we care about improving this skill?

This is where correlation becomes less useful. It really depends on what other skills and resources the person can draw on - not everyone is cut out to be a plumber or a lawyer. My instinct is that we need to give students the opportunity to have a range of well-mastered skills in their toolbox, and then to develop their aptitudes.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Perhaps what we need first is a goal. Is our goal for kids to be able to get jobs? To get jobs they like? To make lots of money? Or is our goal for people to be happy? Feel in control? Have many opportunities? Live an ethical life?

Without a goal it's hard to know whether school is failing kids.

I know many would say a school is there to teach reading and writing and maths. I don't think schools are (or should be) there for that purpose, but rather to improve society by educating everyone. That may need to happen through teaching reading, writing, and maths, but if we don't know our goal we don't know if that's the way to achieve it.

[–] liv@lemmy.nz 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I agree with everything you've just said.

All too often I think people can't see beyond it's there to babysit kids for 8h so parents can work.

[–] Dave@lemmy.nz 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That podcast I mentioned earlier actually said that's why kids in NZ generally start school at 5. It used to be 6, and in the war (first world war, maybe?) they changed it to 5 so more women to work while the men were at war. So the first year of school was literally to babysit.

[–] liv@lemmy.nz 2 points 11 months ago

That's interesting. Social changes so often happen for slightly weird reasons. Giving women the vote was partly about who they would likely vote for.