Cultural appropriation is such a strange issue. It's obvious to me that wearing someone's culture as a costume is fucked up... And it's pretty obvious too I think that opening a restaurant selling food from overseas is almost always cultural exchange... I don't really think you can open a restaurant without a solid understanding of the food you're making (quite unlike putting on a headdress and getting hammered on Halloween)... Somewhere in between there's a line, perhaps, but I have absolutely no idea where it is. White people with dreads is in there somewhere, no one seems to agree on it, personally I think it's pretty far removed from its origins and is basically a white hippy thing in it's own right, regardless of how it began, but I know a lot of people disagree.

[–] electrogamerman@lemmy.world 26 points 11 months ago (2 children)

As a mexican, I dont mind people dressing as mexican for carneval, or making variations of mexican food, as long as they aren't anti mexican, and I think that's where the line is drawn. A culture dont get to "steal" other culture things and also not want them living with them.

[–] BluesF@feddit.uk 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's reasonable. I suppose there's something distinct in the "costume" based on how significant the cultural garb is. I don't know much about mexican culture so correct me if I'm wrong, but is the stereotypical sombrero/poncho combination more a product of convenience and weather than culture? Contrasting with the Native American headdress or Hindu bindi which are culturally significant in (I believe) a different way.

[–] electrogamerman@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

I do agree that the poncho and sombrero are not really a mexican cultural thing (although the shape and colors make it specific to mexico on top of drawing a (mexican) mustache). Like I said, I dont mind it, just don't be anti mexican, and this applies to other cultures too.

[–] imalemmy@iusearchlinux.fyi 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It's obvious to me that wearing someone's culture as a costume is fucked up

Why is it fucked up?

[–] BluesF@feddit.uk 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's a complex and multi-layered topic, as I alluded to in my previous comment, but I'll do my best to answer this. I'm by no means an expert on this, and I'm a white English dude so far from qualified really... But I have read a lot on the topic in addition to my own gut reactions to these things.

So... First let me clarify that by "wearing someone else's culture as a costume" I am really talking specifically about people in wealthy Western countries wearing the cultural clothing of (almost always) historically colonised peoples from elsewhere. With that being said the first point to call attention to is a kind of dry economic one - the outfits you see being worn as a Halloween costumer are broadly mass produced by companies with no affiliation to the cultures they are imitating. They make huge amounts of money selling these costumes to Westerners like me, while giving nothing back to the people they've taken them from. This follows a long and difficult history especially in the context of colonies - historically (not at all that this doesn't continue today) the West has plundered the world for all its worth, and this is just a relatively subtle modern example. So even before anyone puts the costume on I'm uneasy about it, personally.

The second point is specific to certain cultural garbs which are 'closed' within the cultures they come from. While the other reply points out that they, as a Mexican, don't mind seeing people dressed up in Mexican costume, you would be very hard pressed to find anyone Native American who is happy seeing anyone in a mass produced war bonnet. I won't pretend to understand the full significance of the headdress, but its well known that it is not something you just 'put on' if you are a Native American, and divorcing it from that cultural context both cheapens it and shows a general lack of respect towards the people whose clothing you're wearing.

I think that lack of respect is really the main part of my problem with costume-ising culturally significant clothing. Obviously there are clothes from all over the world which are just clothes, and quite likely the people who make those clothes would be delighted to see them being worn all over the world! But if you don't give enough of a shit to a) learn about the culture they come from and what the significance is and b) buy them from the actual people who created them, then you lose that connection and it ceases to be cultural exchange and becomes instead appropriation.

[–] imalemmy@iusearchlinux.fyi 3 points 11 months ago

you would be very hard pressed to find anyone Native American who is happy seeing anyone in a mass produced war bonnet.

I'd argue this is the exception, especially due to the history specific to the location where this kind of costume is common. Admittedly I come from a mixed East Asian background so my bias is based on people calling out appropriation for ao dais and kimonos and the like.

To me it seems like you're misattributing your reaction to those wearing the costume. I disagree that a person wearing a costume has the onus to research its history. That should be on the producer/retailer.

I also disagree that a consumer should buy from the source. It's a lot of effort and responsibility you're placing on someone that likely has no intent for offense, when it's simply easier and more reasonable to understand the context of the wearer and realise it's not really an issue.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Because without living the culture, you will not get the nuance no matter how much you try.

Cultures are complex.