this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
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Ya, I don't get why people get bogged down with the van thing. It's some hollier than thou stuff. And I love my van.
The problem with modern pickups is that they are too huge and used too often as commuter vehicles. And a v8 van would have the same issues. The pickup design is still better suited for a lot of things.
It's not holier than thou, I literally have never seen a pickup truck in my life outside of the times I've been in North America for work. I'm just trying to explain why.
But then I just read the words "A v8 van", so I don't think that I'm gonna bridge this particular cultural divide here.
Well, then you probably are just unaware that small pickups used to be incredibly common, and a lot of people still have them, which is why your arguments sound pedantic.
Similarly, there are both large and small vans. So, it does sound pretentious to act like a covered bed is so superior to an open bed. It's just preference at that point.
I mean, I responded to somebody being annoyed by only having pickup options for farm work. I merely proposed the alternative.
But it's more than just preference, considering the OP was concerned about the lack of alternatives and I have never seen a person living in a rural area who owns a US-style pickup. There's clearly a regional divide here, and from what I'm hearing from both sides none of us seem to be particularly aware of why. Beyond "American like big truck" or whatever.
We are talking about open beds and why they are useful. The size of trucks in the modern market is a separate issue. I agree there.
Are we talking about that? Because what seems to happen up there is that the OP said they "want to purchase a ToddlerKiller4000. Short of inventing a time machine and traveling back to an era of car-sized rather than tank-sized pickups, my options are pretty slim"
And I suggested a van instead and apparently hit the secret trap card of culture clash for today, which I wasn't expecting at all. I thought we'd just joke around about how Americans like their work vehicles to look huge and rugged and maybe feel all superior for a bit about sensible white vans. I didn't think that the concept of a truck bed having a roof would be the great Atlantic rift.
In this particular thread, yes, people just explained that they didn't want manure and compressed gas cylinders in their van or whatever. I didn't think Europeans were actually going to feel all superior. But here we are.
Oh, man, it's an endless loop.
Again, you can absolutely carry those things in a van, but if you don't want to do that you can just hitch a bed to something else. There are billions of people in territories where pickup trucks are not commonplace, I promise you we move those things around just fine.
It's not even a superiority thing, the presumably American OP said he didn't want a pickup but thought he didn't have alternatives, I mentioned vans.
It's not like anybody outside the... pickupsphere? ever felt superior about driving around in a van. I promise you there isn't a bunch of people buying Kangoos and Ford Transits as a status symbol.
I sometimes don't know how to not appear to be feeling superior when talking to Americans. If driving around on a rickety cheap van with holes on the floor now counts as a show of arrogance against people driving cars that need ladders to climb inside I don't know what level of humility is adequate here. Should I just praise baseball or something? Embrace pounds and ounces? I have a measuring tape that lists inches, if that helps.
I have a van, and I use a trailer for stuff I don't want in my van. You just sound like a jerk. That's all. Gday.
So you... agree with me? I'm extra confused now, but hey, suit yourself. Congratulations on your sensible vehicle choice, I guess.
Ya, I said I have a van in my very first comment. But that's my choice for my purposes. I'm not trying to tripple down on "why don't people select my preferred vehicle shape!?"
The guy. I was responding to. Explicitly said. He didn't want a huge pickup truck.
My "arrogance" here comes down to responding to "what other options do I have?" with "here's an option".
Man, I know I'm not the most charismatic guy on the Internet, but holy crap.
Haha. Alight bruv, naw, you were out here on some other evangelical tip. Talking bout "have you heard about our lord and savior, van?". Writing essays and posting videos like mfers never heard of a transit before. Get off it already, people know vans exist. Lol.
I don't know how many ways I can rephrase "the guy literally said he didn't have any options beyond pickup trucks".
I wonder if I can link a thread to itself here.
I don't know how many ways I can tell you that doesn't justify all the things you said to other people.
And I'm thinking, all things being equal, putting a metal roof over my cargo area would just add weight anyway. I guess it's not built for towing like my 1-ton is, so maybe that's a weight savings, but it's also not built for towing which would make it unusable for most farmwork.
We have tractors for that.
What I'm starting to realize is that despite Americans seemingly being car-first in so many facets the entire narrative around the humongous cars seems to be to have a one-size-fits-all car that is supposed to do everything. Wanna carry manure? Pickup truck. Wanna carry kids to school? Pickup truck. Seemingly want to drag a plow? Pickup truck.
A person with what we'd call a "farm", or at least a person in a rural area who has animals and plants vegetables in a field (I also think the concept of "farm" is different) would instead have different, cheaper vehicles for all of those. A small tractor head, or a big tractor if you have a lot of land and it's worth the money, then a van, then a small car, then Jeep or a Range Rover if you need to go offroad and tow a lot.
Do Americans in rural areas just have a different pickup for each person working there instead? That seems insane.
I was honestly not thinking this conversation would reveal one of the biggest challenges to visualize the logic of a different culture I've had this week.
Oh, we have tractors, all right. I could take a picture for you out in our equipment yard that would have 60 tons of tractors in it. I think the scale of this all might be where the disconnect comes from.
When I say, "pick up chem" I'm talking maybe a couple of 1000L totes that would be forked on the back, and that's just a makeup order because I was short on foliar fert during spraying, the main part of the order came on a semi-trailer. They aren't going in a van, even something like a Sprinter, which I'd be surprised if it's any more fuel efficient than a pickup. When I pull a trailer, it's a 30' flatdeck gooseneck, perhaps with a 7630 tractor chained to it or a 25' horse trailer with 16 steers on it. I'm going to drive those to an auction market 150 km away, and while I'm gone, the other people on the farm need to do similar things, so yes, we all have trucks because picking and choosing which vehicle you take to hope that it's the right size when you get out in a field to do something, and realize you needed to grab a pickup is silly. We don't spend money (and the imbued energy implied) on 4 sizes/types of vehicles that might just barely do the job that particular time.
We usually get 8-10 Europeans staying with us over the summer on workstay programs and even the rural ones have no concept of how farming is done in Canada and the US, and come away with a completely different view of farming life here. I'd say you would be surprised and might come away with a different opinion than what you've experienced yourself.
I know you're contemptuous of us and how we do things, but perhaps it's the same thing you'd find yourself doing if you dealt with the same challenges.
I actually fully agree that scale is a big part of the disconnect here. Even where I'm from, people in rural areas from the north and south are talking about wildly different scales when they talk about "farming". Hell, for my standards, the scope you describe doesn't count as "farming" at all, it's a full-on industrial exploitation. May as well call an Ikea factory an "atelier".
This isn't news to me, in that I've been around all those places enough to understand the difference between their respective scales, but I've crucially not actively done work in the others. I have no idea of the kind of use cases that would justify a fleet of pickup trucks rather than specialized vehicles. I know that no size of exploitation chooses to go that way locally, nationally or eeven continentally, so there are definintely alternatives. I don't know that I'd say I'm "contemptuous", though. More "amusedly snarky", perhaps.
Also worth noting that the post I was originally responding to was specifically bemoaning that they couldn't find smaller pickup truck options, so I doubt they were worrying about that type of haul.
They don't care. You can say that you make a living using a vehicle that works for you, for good reason, and that you prefer it to alternatives. And their answer will be "No, you don't." Their head is that far up their own ass. So much so that you are now involved in industrial exploitation, apparently. Top hat and monocle, too, I'm sure.