this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023
1169 points (93.9% liked)

memes

10278 readers
2548 users here now

Community rules

1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour

2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to !politicalmemes@lemmy.world

3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month

4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins

5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.

Sister communities

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Great plain language breakdown for the uninitiated. Doesn't disregard socialism as a solution to the problems outlined, but that's a whole other discussion. Frankly at this point in history, it's largely academic IMHO.

a lot of the human populace is becoming useless.

Emphasis mine. This would be my only edit. Useless only as a consumer and worker. Still imbued with dignity and capable of generating meaning and experiencing a worthy life.

[–] Phanlix@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My bad, I did mean useless in terms of a production standpoint.

I've never personally had a problem with being useless. The time I value most in my life is the time I spend idle because it feels like I have so little idle time.

Now it's my bad. I didn't mean to imply anything about your intent. Your goodwill is pretty clear from everything else you wrote. Just wanted to add a little asterisk there, for other readers.

[–] Phanlix@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Great plain language breakdown for the uninitiated. Doesn’t disregard socialism as a solution to the problems outlined, but that’s a whole other discussion.

I've always pictured socialism as more a middle step toward full blown communism. I also recognize the value of private enterprise and competition. So whatever communist society we end up with still needs to find ways for that healthy competition to thrive.

But like... We can easily meet human needs at this point for everyone. It's unjust and stupid not to do so

[–] Cowbee@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Socialism in the traditional Marxist path is a transitional step to Communism, yes. Communism, however, is fully anti-market, and as such is anti-competition. Communism is a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society, perhaps you meant to say a system like Market Socialism should precede Communism, rather than some impossible form of competitive Communism?

[–] pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think we might be mixing up our micros and macros. Seems like some people will enjoy competition and outdoing each other no matter the extrinsic (or lack thereof) rewards. That's how it is now, anyway.

[–] Cowbee@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Competition, sure. Sports, competitive cooperation, and other methods can be had. Market competition would not exist.

I could be saying the same thing you're saying though, so correct me if I'm misunderstanding please.

I don't think we're disagreeing, but I'm thinking of like a somewhat friendly rivalry between, like, two teams of tool makers to outdo each other in design or production efficiencies. Like the kind of stuff that people get up to at work or play, naturally.

I'm no economist, but that doesn't sound like market competition to me. At least there is no driving force behind it, other than human nature, or maybe like an ad hoc competition for kudos or esteem.

I feel like if we could get everyone's basic needs met, then human ambition would fill in the gaps. Not for everyone of course, but that's the case right now - needing money doesn't necessarily make you more ambitious.

[–] Seasm0ke@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

But is it really easily if only one yacht? /s