this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
746 points (90.5% liked)

politics

19089 readers
4335 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] letsgocrazy@lemm.ee 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"matches that of Heinrich Himmler", you mean the head of the SS and one of the main people behind the holocaust?

Have you ever considered that your life, and life in general would be better if you didn't have such absurd and shrill opinions?

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

There is one way in which Himmler and Kissinger differs... Himmler at least had the backbone to go and witness the results of his policies in person - specifically, the Babi Yar massacre in Ukraine. Kissinger never did go see for himself the gargantuan atrocities he had "achieved" in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Timor, and Chile.

Oh, I forgot the other way Kissinger and Himmler differs... Himmler was hanged - Kissinger got off scott-free. So there's that.

[–] orrk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

so you really REALLY do not understand the brutality of the Holocaust then, and less so the history of the sub-chinease peninsula, and Pinochet couldn't hold a candle to what Himmler did

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Trying to hide your hero's crimes behind the Holocaust, are we? Just like your fascist friends over in occupied Palestine?

Try harder.

[–] Caradoc879@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Jesus christ dude. Calm down.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Did you see me at any point not being calm?

[–] Caradoc879@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah when you start throwing accusations of fascism at random posters, that's pretty riled up behavior. Nobody but you is talking about Isreal vs Palestine in this thread. Not a single person you responded to said kissinger was a good guy. You can compare atrocities and acknowledge they're all atrocities.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

that’s pretty riled up behavior.

No, not really - considering how the situation in occupied Palestine has, once again, shown just how enthusiastically all these "liberals" start swallowing fascist justifications as soon as their fairy tale ideology is put to the test, I'd say it's most definitely not a case of "random posters".

Not a single person you responded to said kissinger was a good guy.

Go check the downvotes on my initial comment - there's a very big difference between "not saying Kissinger was a good guy" and acknowledging that he was one of the most vile and prolific war criminals the 20th century managed to produce.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What like to the front? Do you know of other secretaries of state who went to the front?

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Do you know of other secretaries of state who went to the front?

Yeah... they don't really like dirtying themselves with the mess they cause, do they?

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Unfortunately, the American education system just kinda gives up teaching history after 1945. Otherwise, you might be more familiar with the US State Department sponsored coups and subsequent genocides in Latin America, the Middle East, Africa, and the Pacific Rim over the subsequent 40 years.

Kissinger absolutely was administering mass arrests and executions in US client states, from the overthrow of democracies in Iran and Egypt to the massacres of dissidents in Jakarta and Rio de Janeiro and Santiago to the arming of the Khmer Rouge and subsequent bombings in Laos and Cambodia. Say what you will about Himmler, but he only really had the reigns of a mid-sized European industrial power for a decade. Kissinger was instrumental in steering truly nightmarish foreign policies on an international scale for four times as long.

And when you look at how folks like Kerry and Clinton and Blinken consistently turn to the Kissinger playbook to advance US foreign policy in the modern day, he's got even more blood on his hands by proxy than that.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I don't know of anyone who thinks we can or should stop every genocide. Kissinger didn't lead these things you're talking about, or at least the things I I think you're talking about. And he wasn't unique in his views. Kissinger is not comparable to Himmler, this is a ridiculous post, shallow. .

I think Kissinger and everyone in the foreign service and executive branch who helped execute American foreign policy thought was that if two violent factions were going to kill each other, America might as well back the one it thinks it can work with to advance it's foreign policy goals. Kissinger wasn't a wizard. He couldn't make the north and south Vietnamese stop killing each other. You don't have to like it to pick a strategic interest and choose a side.

It's called realpolitik.

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Jesus fucking Christ, you think supporting fascist coups on democratically elected governments is just pragmatism?