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Identity politics is a divisive ideology that stands in the way of mass organization against the root problem of capitalism (lemmy.ml)

submitted 2 years ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/socialism@lemmy.ml

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[–] BlizzardRed415@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I always thought class was the primary contradiction and all the identity stuff were separate issues, as in once there is a revolution there can still be issues faces by certain types of people. Like just because a country is now socialist doesn't make literally all problems and contradictions go away. For example western liberal democracies have better rights for lgbtq people compared to China, or the mentality that having a baby boy is better than having a baby girl. This type of thinking is very common in certain parts of China to this day, even after the revolution.

Also the fact that so many proletariats are being pushed to the right can be a reflection of the failure of the left to reach out to the working class, so I agree with your point of not talking down to people with reactionary views. The left is so quick to call people with reactionary views literal Nazis as a strawman so they can absolve themselves of trying to remove those views.

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[–] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago

I agree with part of what you said but not all of it. I wonder if some Socratic questions would reveal how much we agree and perhaps make you change your mind.

Do you mean that after a revolution a socialist state would still have to deal with gender, sexuality, racial, etc, issues? (I think this is what you meant,v as you give the example of China, and I agree.)

If so, does it matter that a socialist state will still have to deal with class as well? China still had a bourgeoisie, for example, and has to reign it in now and again.

To ask the question in a different way: can class and other 'identity' issues be separated just because those 'identity' issues will remain after a revolution, if class will also remain a problem after the revolution?

During a dictatorship of the proletariat, there will still be a bourgeoisie, and the related problems of having a bourgeois class, even if it's power is diminished. It would not be till much later, when bourgeois social relations have withered away, that class is abolished and 'full' communism reached.

Would you expect those identity issues to have been dealt with by the time that full communism is reached?

If so, is that not the exact time that class contradictions will be finally resolved?

And to get back to where we started, does this indicate that 'identity' and class are interwoven after all and cannot be treated as separate issues?