this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2023
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Ohno, people who are being systemically killed are making you late for work! Time to turn against them
The dude has a point whether we like it or not. Public support makes a difference. Losing it is a cost. Is what they're accomplishing worth that cost?
The clear answer is yes. This is exactly like the people who say they won't be allies anymore if we LGBT+ people aren't polite enough.
No halfway decent person who isn't a steaming pile of excrement would be deterred by such a protest. That user's take stems from discourse specifically designed to shut down protests, and it's imperative that we do not let it work.
So no, the "dude" doesn't have a "point." It's all horseshit. Shut them down immediately when they start flapping their pie hole with that shit.
You assume there are significantly more "halfway decent people" than "steaming piles of excrement". If your assumption were true, we would have abandoned fossil fuels in favor of electric vehicles at least 40 years ago, and wouldn't be having this argument today. Humanity leans far more to the "excrement" side of this particular debate.
You need the support of quite a lot of the people you describe as "steaming piles of excrement", and all you're doing is driving them straight to the first politician who says "I'll lock up every last one of these asshole protesters as soon as they step in the street" while taking the money of every oil tycoon on the planet.
No, OP's idea is infinitely superior to those jobless, orange-coated jackasses.
You don't actually need public support to shut down fossil fuel infrastructure if your supporters are organized and willing to perish over it. The doomers actually do have large enough numbers that they could organize and set up their own militias if they really wanted to. Hell, the right wing nutjobs do it all the time.
If.
There are a lot of people willing to do jail time over it.
So they say.
There's a lot of jail space to hold them.
🤨 If that's the way you regard your fellow man for protesting something simply because their protest inconveniences you, then it's no wonder so many people are undeterred by possible jail time over it.
Damn dude. You all demand unending sympathy for rapists and pedophiles, but the second someone implies a threat to your access to McDonald's and 7-11, all that talk goes out the window. Nope, off to jail you go! you say without a second's thought toward the hypocrisy.
There's no reason anyone should take you seriously.
You suggested they are ready, willing, and eager to go to jail, and now you're arguing I'm some kind of bad guy because I share their desire for them to be jailed. And somehow, I'm the hypocrite?
No one said jail was a good thing, just that they're willing to endure it.
So no, you're not worth taking seriously.
I said jail was a good thing. They should be in jail.
Then you're a bootlicking shill who deserves to be inconvenienced. 🤷
Not my problem either way. I bike everywhere.
You bike anywhere that doesn't have these movement-infringing obstructionists. You don't bike anywhere that does have such criminals.
"Jail" seemed the most appropriate option. "Hood ornament" and "speed bump" are perfectly reasonable alternatives, but you indicated their willingness for "jail". "Jail" would make everyone happy.
Actually yes, you do, and I know because I've been on both sides of this equation. The only thing you can do is be patient and wait for them to pass or politely cheer them on and walk/push your bike around them. They are not seriously going to stop pedestrians.
The fact that they're willing to endure jail over this is morally laudable. Jail is awful for those who can't afford to bail themselves out. It shouldn't be a place protesters are thrown into for exercising their first amendment rights but that's how tyranny works.
You need to stop being selfish and grow the fuck up.
You keep using those words, but you clearly don't comprehend their meaning.
"Selfish" is demanding exclusive access to public thoroughfares. "Selfish" is insisting that you are the only person who can use a public road. "Selfish" is denying public access to public roads.
"Tyranny" is when an individual forces the public to bend to their personal whims, instead of allowing them to conduct their own affairs in peace.
These people are not protesting. They are infringing on the rights of every person they deliberately delay.
Protesters have the right to speak. They do not have the right to demand a captive audience to hear their speech. They do not have the right to stop anyone who wants to move. They do not have the right to harass. You can speak; you cannot force anyone to listen, and you should be jailed for trying.
No, no, you're being selfish. You can't be assed to sit in traffic for 10 minutes or simply turn around to accommodate for other people's right to protest. That silly thing people fought and died to have. All because you don't want to tolerate being inconvenienced. That is the height of selfishness.
You are selfish. Selfish, selfish, selfish.
Drivig isn't even a right, it's a privilege. Legally it's a privilege. You have no right to drive and never did. They do, however, have a right to protest.
Stop only caring about yourself and invest your mental energy in something other than your shitty 9 to 5.
No, no, no: that isn't traffic. I'm not stuck in traffic. "Traffic" is people trying to get from where they are to where they want to be. I have no problem sitting in traffic.
The problem is that they aren't traveling. They aren't creating "traffic". They are detaining people. They are unlawfully stripping people of their right to travel, without their consent. Unlawful detention is a crime.
I'm not caring only for myself. I am caring about all the other people who are similarly being unlawfully detained by these selfish, tyrannical, criminals who have unilaterally stripped us of our right to travel in peace.
You can Share the road, get the fuck off the road, go to jail, or get run over. I don't particularly care which one you pick, but "detain others" is not an option.
Yeah, you're the one with the ability and the will to run them over and kill them and yet somehow, you're the victim being detained. 🙄
Grow the fuck up. You are not a victim. It is not all about you. You are not entitled to 100% guaranteed access to empty roads.
You have to share the road with pedestrians and even protesters whether you like it or not. Protesters are a part of driving and a part of life you have to accept.
Do what you tell everyone else to do: Get over it.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
Obstructing the road is not sharing the road.
I have to share with travelers. I have no problem sharing with other people traveling on the road, even when the act of traveling introduces delays.
Protesters also have to share the road. They are not allowed to obstruct the road in the course of their protest. Obstructing the road is a criminal act specifically because the roads must be shared and "obstruction" is not sharing.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
Pedestrians always have the right of way regardless.
See, I can be obnoxious to prove a point too.
It doesn't matter if protesters are hanging out in the middle of the road. You have to put up with them regardless. And honestly, the situation is too serious for your inconvenience to be taken into account. Fix the planet, then we'll talk.
Pedestrians do, indeed, have the right of way. "Right of way" meaning they are traveling.
To have the right of way, you have to be traveling. If you are not traveling, you can have no right of way. If you are not traveling on a thoroughfare, you are obstructing traffic for those who are traveling.
Protesters obstructing traffic do not have the right of way. They are criminals, and it is a good thing that they like jail.
They have the right of way regardless of whatever they're doing on the road. You don't get to run them over like you're in a Newgrounds game no matter how much you want to.
That means even when protesters are sitting on the road, you have to put up with it. Turn around. Find another route. Park and find another route.
Deal with it.
That's not what "right of way" means. They do not have the right of way. They are violating the right of way.
They can be arrested, charged, and convicted for obstructing traffic. Their act of violating the right of way can also constitute unlawful detention, and the detained can use force to escape or arrest their captor.
Yes it is what right of way means. You can't just run over pedestrians on the street no matter how much they inconvenience you. You especially can't run over protesters.
Get over their presence and get a life that doesn't revolve around your 9 to 5, or you in general.
No, sorry, it is not. "Right of way" means they are legally permitted to be there. If they had the right of way, it would not be lawful to remove them.
They do not have the right of way. It may not be completely legal in all cases to run their asses over, but they do not have the right of way. The travelers they are obstructing have the right of way. Travelers have the right to use the road, but non-travelers are illegally infringing on that right.
Yes, actually, it is, and you have to deal with them whether you want to or not. You can't justify your hatred and bloodlust against protesters with the law; the law sides with them.
So yes, protesters on the street have the right of way. That's the price you pay to live in a country that claims to be free. Don't like it, move to Russia with your topsie Putin.
Protests are supposed to be disruptive. Standing in traffic is disruptive. What's the problem?
Protests are supposed to raise awareness and motivate people to join their cause. These particular protests are turning away far more people from this cause than they are gaining.
These protests are ideal for promoting stricter laws against jaywalking and unlawful detention, but not so much for reducing the use of fossil fuels.
anyone who's not already on board the climate change cause is either too stupid or too rich to care. neither of which can be fixed.
None of that is a justification for obstructing traffic.
Implying you need much of a justification to block traffic
Oh, there is no implication about it: you need one hell of a justification to deliberately infringe on freedom of movement. It should be a criminal offense on the same level as "harassment" or "simple assault" to deliberately prevent someone from traveling. Each of these protesters should be charged with a separate count for each and every vehicle so delayed.
And, anyone so impeded should be justified in using any force necessary to end that unlawful impediment.
Bro, you can justify killing little old ladies crossing the street with that argument.
Just admit all you care about is yourself and getting from point A to point B and that right to protest doesn't actually matter to you.
Reasonable person standard applies to all use of force, so no, not really.
The right to protest does not extend to infringing on the rights of another. My right to protest does not supersede your right to leave your home and travel in public. I cannot detain you or deny your free movement.
You do not have a monopoly on the use of public roads, sidewalks, etc. "Taking" the public roads or sidewalks for your private use is not reasonable.
So in other words you really don't care.
Pedestrians always have right of way regardless of why they're on the street, to start...
And the right to protest does protect their right to inconvenience you when on the road. Don't like it, just turn around or go park your car and walk.
They have the right to use the road. They do not have the right to deny use of the road.
They do when they're protesting, or even for festivals, events, trying to cross and getting stuck. That's a fact of life you just have to put up with.
No, that's not a fact of life.
It might be a fact of law, but if they have figured out some loophole that allows them to get away with it, the law can and should be changed to eliminate that loophole. And that's the only real effect they will have: convincing the general public to adopt some authoritarian bullshit law that should not need to exist, because nobody should be enough of a cunt to deliberately impede movement.
The problem is studies have demonstrated it's counterproductive both in the popular debate and at driving policy, it can actually set back the green movement.
Just because you agree with their idealism doesn't mean you need to agree with their behaviour, if I burn tires to get awareness for climate change that isn't something a sensible person supports
Yes, that's an accurate summary of what I just said.
The only thing those idiots are likely to accomplish is stronger laws against jaywalking.