this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2023
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Gotta say this being one of my first impressions of lemmy... Its not great. Beehaw had a large tech and gaming section that I literally only just subbed too.
Welcome to human nature.
It's easy to look at Reddit or any other communities and pin the blame all the bad things on mods, admins, or whoever in charge. However, the truth is, anyone who gets in any position of power will make decisions that may not benefit the larger whole or reflect the community at large. Lemmy will deal with this, just as Reddit dealt with it (and succeeded in spite of it).
Yea I mean I get it. It just sucks that this is the first real experience I am having with this system. Would have been nice to get a little more experience under my feet before having to deal with this. I suppose this should be expected. Lemmy is likely experiencing some extreme growing pains unlike anything it has seen before.
I totally understand that while this is an annoyance at the end of the day this is likely still a more desirable outcome then what is happening with Reddit. At least here that set of admins can only do so much damage to the overall system while the Reddit admins have total control over the whole system.
This seems to be new frontier for a lot of users. Lemmy is like Reddit in a lot of ways but so much different in so many more ways. As new users, we're pretty much guinea pigs (or lemmings, I guess) and I imagine there's going to be a lot of this in the weeks to come.
This is experience! If Lemmy works out, we'll be able to say we helped pave the way!
Hmm.
Consider that Beehaw is more comparable to a major subreddit already. Lets say /r/wsb was having issues with new trolling users and they decide to go private for a week to preserve their culture (and have done in the past before).
Now instead of "just" one subreddit making that decision, the entire alignment of Beehaw (including all their communities) made a decision in one fell swoop.
No matter how you look at it, this is better for the Beehaw community already than what we've had in Reddit. And yeah, it sucks for us here in lemmy.world to not talk with Beehaw and for those users to not talk with us for now, but like /r/wsb, there's no reason why this has to be a permanent defederation. They can refederate after this "Reddit Boom" and when traffic slows down maybe a week or two from now and their moderators/admins can keep up with the new influx of users.
From the perspective of "What Lemmy-software needs to do", perhaps a "super-moderator", below Admin but above moderator who has access to user-bans and/or user-vetting is what's needed for this community. That way, Beehaw and Lemmy.world can re-federate, Beehaw can appoint community leaders who can perform user-vetting (Gmail-like invitations), but Beehaw admins remain the admins. And they get to have tight control over poorly-behaving users from other instances (ie: blocking them out entirely until they're vetted or invited in).
Isn't that a bit entitled? Reddit was a company who made money with their users, but Lemmy isn't run by a company, it's run by volunteers. Running a small server is one thing, but who is going to moderate content from 100'000s of users, content generated by an instance that doesn't even have any basic restrictions on it's userbase? What if a large group of people start spamming illegal shit? What if there is suddenly cp showing up on your server instance? Who is going to deal with that, what are the legal implications for that?
One might assume they quit their server, but they didn't.. They just temporarily disabled federation because they feel that they don't have the capabilities to moderate that many users.. You can still apply for a local account on their instance, you can still browse their content without an account..
EDIT: You can even still browse content from beehawk and comment on it, but comments made from lemmy.world will not be visible by beehawk.
@aski3252 @nosut You can go back to reddit you know? Nobody is forgetting you here
Excuse me? I support the beehawk admin's decisions, it's a very sensible decision that I suspect other instances will have to seriously consider soon as well because moderation will be an important issue very soon.
My point is that the commenter I replied to and many users who are complaining about this decision, about how "it splits the community in two" and about how "this is classic reddit behaviour" are acting a bit entitled as they don't seem to be aware of the immense problems that come with moderation, especially when you do it as a hobby..
@aski3252 I understand after I read the reason why they defedersted. Up to them. I bet people will leave over there also because of that. They where told ehrnt hry come to lemmy that they can see all post and commryfeom every instant. S popular defederates.snd that makes people wonder. Admins have a lot of power. But also ok the flip side Reddit mods can ban people and make the sub private and no one can do anything about it.. I guess it's just life
An important part of federation is that you can freely choose who you want to federate with and who not.
Why does it make people wonder when they did a great job explaining why they made their decision and even made a post warning people that they might have to defederate?
And that's the entire point of the whole thing.. The entire point is that anyone can create a community that they can run however they want (as long as it doesn't impact other communities).. Moderation isn't a bad thing, it's a necessary thing.. Nobody wants illegal pornography and harmful material on their servers..
And beehawk is and always has been very open about them wanting to be a safe space community with strong moderation.. They openly state that their entire motivation for creating their community is to have much stronger moderation than in other social media sites..
Yes, if my instance unfederated with beehaw I'd have to find a new instance, those two !communities are too large a portion of the current fediverse activity.
This is bad for fediverse adoption, even if there is merit to the behavioural issues.
It would be good if Lemmy server tools allowed admins to remove an instance from their front-page without stopping user access.