this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
766 points (97.8% liked)

politics

19072 readers
3591 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

https://archive.li/asM5c

A Texas woman has been charged with threatening to kill the judge overseeing a criminal case against Donald Trump.

Abigail Jo Shry, 43, allegedly called US District Judge Tanya Chutkan a “stupid slave” and used another racial slur in a voicemail message she left at the Washington courthouse.

She is reported to have said: “You are in our sights, we want to kill you... If Trump doesn’t get elected in 2024, we are coming to kill you, so tread lightly, b----.

“You will be targeted personally, publicly, your family, all of it.”

The article also includes an expectation meeting mugshot. For people that talk about violence, I’ve never been less intimidated.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] msage@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So, like, what do you have then?

What is there to be 'free' from?

[–] astreus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's an interesting question and highlights the gap between use of the phrase. The question is: who is free? The individual absolutely free from all consequence, or society to be free from dangerous, damaging, and intolerable behaviour?

Does it mean freedom from impediment? Are you are allowed to say whatever you want, but the community has a right to discourage, deplatform, and criminalise the effects of those words have in breaking the social contract (e.g. attempting to cause panic, promoting a riot, trying to over throw democracy, racial intimidation, etc)?

Or does it mean freedom from consequences? Are you allowed to say whatever you want and the community has no right to recourse for the effects of speech on the community (i.e. you can say literally anything and the without fear that it will negatively impact your standing within the wider community and social contract)? Does that mean we should allow people to promote ISIS? Or send direct threats to you and your family, if they never intend to act upon them? How about promote your family be seen as animals to be driven out or killed? Should those speech actions be free from consequences? Even if it escalates to a wider group or is given from a position of authority?

I do not believe the latter is a tenable way of maintaining any form of contract and only enhances the power of bad faith actors. It's also only ever selectively employed.

The same people that tend to promote the latter in cases that suit their cause, threaten officials, promote hate, and drive division are the same group banning history books in schools. We cannot let people in bad faith muddy the waters of what free speech mean.

[–] msage@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So then why call it 'free speech'.

Perhaps some other name should be used to better explain the concept.

[–] astreus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I disagree.

Free, in this context, means not captive (i.e. not controlled by a single entity). Speech is free. It just isn't free from consequences in the wider standing of society. And most people do know that (my examples highlight it - should I have no consequences for inciting a lynch mob to kill your family if I didn't string the noose?).

Don't let bad faith actors force us to do...anything! They're bad faith actors!