this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2023
2640 points (97.8% liked)
Memes
45653 readers
1323 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Brave, Vivaldi, Edge and other chromium browsers are forks of the main chromium project. They can decide whether to include or exclude features from mainstream chromium.
As far as I know, Brave and Vivaldi will keep Manifest V2 extension support and said that they will not ship WEI (Web Environment Integrity).
Discord uses a modified version of electron, and it's also probably an outdated fork as well, although I am not sure about that.
Steam, in the other hand, uses CEF, which they use as a way to render it's interface and as a replacement of VGUI (a good example of this is the steam game overlay), I don't know if they will ship WEI if it ever releases in chromium as there isn't a statement from Valve yet.
Sources:
If I missed something, please tell me!
Brave has an entire contingent of the FOSS community up in arms. They claim that it is doing more data harvesting than Alphabet, and the EULA prevents anyone from finding out what they are doing with all that data scraping.
I don't have a dog in the fight, other than as a windows user I would like to see FOSS adopted as quickly as possible since they have predicted all this shit for the last 30 years at least.
ETA: I know basically nothing about Vivaldi, though having used it, it seems to function as lightweight as chromium did back in the day. I have no comments on Edge.
I mean, brave is an Ad company, I think they're just using an ad blocker to stop other ad services other than their own from competing
Gosh, the more I hear about Brave the worse it gets....
Vivaldi is filled with bloat and feature creep to the brim now. They abandoned that "lightweight" philosophy ages ago.
Only if you want it (yes you still need to download a larger package).
Vivaldi is created by the former creator of Opera, with sort of the same goals it used to have: care for the power user. They are up for adding any customization and power user tool if people want it. It has never tried to be as lightweight as possible. Instead, it should be one of the most customizable and feature rich browsers out there.
It’s great, as I can add and remove features so it’s tailored to me.
Just to add the missing comment about Edge - MS is turning into the Microsoft version of Chrome. They removed Google's ad bs and replaced it with their own ad and monetization bs.
Discord's electron still hasn't received the patch for spectre/meltdown mitigation in the browser, I doubt they will ever have to deal with manifest V3 or WEI.
I don't really understand how this could work.
The whole outcry around WEI is that most of the web wouldn't work if you didn't have a browser that supported it.
Not shipping WEI would seem tantamount to just discontinuing.
@DogMuffins @amycatgirl, it is not so simple, there are a huge number of third-party pages that also depend on certain Google services, directly or indirectly. This is what happens when you depend on sponsors, because with this you lose your freedom of decision, especially if you make a pact with the devil, sorry, Google.
Mozilla has already suffered this in its own flesh, becoming a Google mascot from an independent platform, even with Google devs working on Firefox.
You probably missed a part where Chrome, Chromium, and CEF are practically the same thing when it comes to resource consumption. Man, I can't even make Steam consume less than 1 gb ram at any time anymore, even when minimized. CPU consumption, the amount of processes, loading times are also problematic. I wish companies would rely on a labor of programmers, not just web programmers.
I don't think that Steam would consume less resources if it wasn't a web app. Most of the resources usage there comes from crap loads of high quality images. You can't have hundreds of images in a single window without eating loads of RAM.
Sorry what? I literally said that it consumes this amount of memory while there is no active windows. You can close them all and it won't change much.
Also years ago the website was still filled with images and it didn't consume that much.
Also, do you really think high quality images consume more resources? High resolution I can understand, but quality is irrelevant when it comes to ram.
What do you mean there are no active windows? You can only have no active windows if the app is closed. If you don't see it on the screen, it doesn't mean there are no windows or related services running in the background. If you want to free up memory, shut the app down.
Also part of image quality is its resolution. And image resolution has grown a lot ib the last 10-15 years. Rendered images also went from 8 bit and 256 colours byte arrays to 32 bit byte arrays (already 4x bigger) plus colour correction and all kinds of other meta data stored in memory.
And then you should keep in mind that Steam main storefront page has hundreds if not thousands images in one place. And they are pre-rendered and cached in memory so that you have nice and smooth experience. People seriously underestimate how many resources are consumed by media. As a software developer I can tell you that you can easily have a few megabytes of code and then hundreds of megabytes of COMPRESSED images, fonts and sounds for a small app. Unpack everything into memory and no wonder modern mobile phones need 16+ gigs of RAM.
You seem to not understand what you are talking about.
First, it's possible to have an app active without spending resources on background windows. This process is called "close a window". If an app has the tray icon available it should be perfectly viable option and, guess what, it works like that with many apps. But no, even the tray menu for Steam is now a damn web-rendered element. Also even in Chromium based browsers, you can have 2 or more windows opened, and when you close one of them you can expect less ram usage than before you closed it. I've seen at least one VScodium derived app that completely unloads browser based code when no active windows are visible. You don't need to be a huge corporation to know how to do it.
Second, it's insane to propose that thousands of images from some site (or even from disk cache) are going to be cached into memory immediately upon app launch. You could at least do some research or try Steam app yourself. Want to also tell me how I need thousands of images in my ram even when using Steam small mode?
Third, you mustn't tell me what I need to sacrifice to have "nice and smooth experience". I know enough about code and have seen enough apps to know that you don't need to require GBs of ram from every user to provide good experience. There are literally web based alternatives to CEF that consume 5x-10x less. And then there are many other options for native code.
You mention few megabytes of code. Yeah. Problem is, Chromium code is tons more than that. Those are not "small" apps.
Do you even understand what I'm talking about?
Bullshit. Steam works well when CEF isn't working right, like no internet connection. Images are still loaded. It's 100% thier storefront.
Wut?
Reading comprehension level: 0
Eh, after all, they are all chromium under the hood. So I'd expect similar cpu/ram usage from them.
Vivaldi is a great browser
Problem is that someone will have to keep maintain it all. We will see how it will pan out in the end.