this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
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[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Then the Democratic Party had best make sure that progressives have no reason to split off and form their own party, huh?

The FPTP voting system ensures that they do not have a reason.

Why does it always fall to progressives to get behind Democrats and never the other way around?

The FPTP voting system and entrenchment of neoliberalism in the minds of the American public for over 40 years from both mainstream political parties starting with Regan. This is may be the case for western countries and democracies more broadly as well. Currently, neoliberal ideas cause a contradiction when a person encounters progressive or socialist ideas. Along the lines of:

Why would we fix our institutions if they are flawless? What's the hurry to solve our problems if we are at the end of history?

Some useful and correct resolutions of these contradictions are:

Our institutions are flawed because they were made by us, flawed humans. The time to advert climate change, fix systemic inequalities, the reduce the wealth gap is now. Incremental changes will run out the clock, as they don't address the root causes. There will be hundreds of millions if not billions of causalities unless these issues are addressed sooner rather than later.

Neoliberal ideas must be pulled from the minds of Americans like a weed. Or like one of those radishes in Super Mario Bros 2. Then people will be able to embrace ideas like systemic change to institutions and wealth redistribution from the rich to everyone else.

When asked about socialism, if a person responds with 'socialism doesn't work' or 'the Soviet Union collapsed' those are the tells that a person needs to full internalize neoliberalism as a scam.

And maybe a history lesson about how the Soviet Union was actually an authoritarian communist dictatorship and not a socialist country. The government owned the means of the production, not the people, and the government wasn't representative of the people.

Oh thank god Democrats don’t throw vulnerable populations under the bus every chance they get.

It's better than the Democrats intentionally murdering people in camps. Neoliberals in office aren't going to solve our problems, but it gives us time to do the work to solve them. Like educating people and co-opting the Democratic Party in one of their primaries. Like Trump did to the Republicans and Bernie tried to do to the Democrats.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

It’s better than the Democrats intentionally murdering people in camps.

The would in a heartbeat if they thought they could get one Republican vote for doing so.

Neoliberals in office aren’t going to solve our problems, but it gives us time to do the work to solve them.

Neoliberals ARE our problem. We've had half a century of incrementalists demanding that we just wait a little more for them to get around to moving the needle to the left, and instead they move so far to the right that they're buddy-buddy with Netanyahu and the Cheneys. Incrementalism says "too soon" until it's too late.

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The would in a heartbeat if they thought they could get one Republican vote for doing so.

Again, don't lie. The Democratic Party can of course move that far, but they have yet to do so.

Neoliberals ARE our problem.

Neoliberalism is the problem. Neoliberals can be tomorrow's socialists. But we have to put in the work and educate people. My argument already refuted this point, I recommend reading it.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Again, don’t lie. The Democratic Party can of course move that far, but they have yet to do so.

Just wait. Incrementalism will get you there.

Neoliberalism is the problem. Neoliberals can be tomorrow’s socialists

You have unfounded faith in neolliberals' willingness to move any direction other than right.

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

If your arguments actually referenced mine in any meaningful way you would know I have addressed these points in this comment section multiple times. As it stands, a casual refutation of your arguments is now sufficient. edit: typo

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I have addressed these points in this comment section multiple times.

Yes, with "leverage power we don't have against people who would rather lose than stop throwing people under the bus."

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

We do have this power. We elected Joe Biden in 2020. Your argument pretends we don't at the expense of minorities and our ability to prevent the worst outcomes of climate change.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

We do have this power. We elected Joe Biden in 2020.

And oh shucky dern, his hands were always conveniently tied. Except when it came time to sell weapons for genocide.

Your argument pretends we don’t at the expense of minorities and our ability to prevent the worst outcomes of climate change.

Democrats consider minorities expendable in their unending quest for Republican votes.

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

And oh shucky dern, his hands were always conveniently tied. Except when it came time to sell weapons for genocide.

You don't actually care about minorities. Even more people would dead by now under four years of Trump. That's immaterial to you.

Democrats consider minorities expendable in their unending quest for Republican votes.

So do you. Except you want moral victory over the Democrats.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 0 points 1 hour ago

So do you. Except you want moral victory over the Democrats.

I've spent the past few decades wanting that party to move to the left and voting for them. They did what you wanted instead and moved to the right.