this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2024
218 points (72.1% liked)
Memes
45171 readers
3005 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The Dems will preserve a political model that's at least malleable. 3rds will need to work together to push ranked choice more and more into voters' field of view.
Republicans will swan-dive into fascism, in which case 3rds (and everyone else) are fucked.
Dems aren't going to help 3rds directly, but any one who wants the possibility of a 3rd party victory later is committing political suicide by failing to vote blue as a means of buying time. Voting 3rd when that 3rd has no potential for victory is self-destructive.
Also just following the green party a bit and educating your self about them... you learn that the green party is as focused on selfish personal horse race politics that deals with power plays, as the dem party (though on a smaller scale) instead of actual change.
This political cycle, Green party had a chance to radically push the Dems on palestine, by putting up a candidate that would drop out if Dems changed their position on support for Israel.
Jill Stein rejected it.
Just the fact they rejected it shows to me that they're not serious about actual political change. They just want to be a spoiler. They continue to only run in general elections instead ofnpushing in states.
So I guess i have no home party, but Ill vote for the lesser of two evils still.
This is incredibly dishonest. The Greens actually did the compromise thing in 2020 and didn't go as hard so Dems could beat Trump.
In return they got Democrats doing Genocide and AOC Pelosi now yapping about how Greens are "predatory" honest because they dropped in the 2020 polls.
Democrats can not do Genocide they don't need to Greens to bow down for them.
In return? Dems have always been for genocide. Joe Biden has been terrible for Israel Paleatine.
Dems are better on this issue than they ever have been (Biden excluded) due to activist pressure, no thanks to Greens.
Pelosi actuall said in March that we should limit sales to Israel. I don't think people realize how incredible that is.
Which is why Harris is saying she's going to keep sending bombs to israel to burn Palestinian babies with and she's signaling that she wants to start a war with Iran right?
Ok... Did they do it?
Much like during covid when they gave preferential treatment to themselves while simultaneously working to remove the Green party from ballots.
-More to the point your comment runs contrary to reality and the very nature of the joke pointed out in the meme.
The green party only exists because the GOP keeps giving them money. The only time anyone ever hears a damn word out of them, is when they're showing up to split the Dem vote for the GOP.
You might want lay off the Blue MAGA conspiracies for a bit.
Commission certifies Jill Stein eligible to receive federal matching funds (2024)
Also the entire Democratic party runs on AIPAC which is actually funded by Republicans. Dems reaching unprecedented levels of projection.
Lol. Lmao, even
When everything Democrats don't like is a Russian GOP state agent because someone drew some text on an image and they did zero fact checking, you know they've reached MAGA levels.
If any of these insane conspiracies were actually true the Green party would not even be allowed to run. The Democrats have done everything to try to concern troll the Greens off ballots in most "democratic" fashion.
They might label some people incorrectly as russian agents, but the reality is that there is a concerted effort by russia to undermine the US democracy, mostly directed at the Democratic Party, and making some mistakes doesn't make them delusional.
It's pretty hard to prosecute propaganda in the US due to the First Amendment, so it's not accurate to say that just because the Greens can run, they must not be russian agents.
The concern about the Greens is eminently logical: they are never going to win, so the best they can do is take votes from the Democrats, allowing the fascists to win. This is in fact what happened in the election of Polk, leading to the Mexican-American war and the theft of Texas from Mexico, which was then admitted as an additional slave state. Further, the Greens do little to nothing other than run in big national races, so it's not a leap to think they're deliberately running a spoiler campaign.
Finally, none of that has anything to do with the silly attempt to label Democrats as "Blue MAGA", since MAGA is a quasi-religious fascist personality cult, none of which can be credibly attributed to Democrats.
Top Democrats like Biden and Harris are bought and paid for by AIPAC. Which is funded by you guessed it: Republicans. And israel.
The reason it's called Blue MAGA is because Democrats are also Zionists.
Zionismis a religious fascist Death Cult. And the Democrat Zionist cult is currently complicit in Genocide and the denial of Genocide.
AIPAC is funded by Israel, Republicans, and Democrats, so you can't draw any strong conclusions about party affiliation from involvement in AIPAC alone. Further, AIPAC isn't the only, or even the biggest, donor to Biden and Harris, so claiming they're "bought and paid for" strains credulity.
MAGA isn't solely characterized by Zionism, and not all Zionists are MAGA, so going from "Zionism" to "MAGA" is an unsubstantiated leap.
Finally, receiving donations from a death cult does not make one part of a death cult. Morally reprehensible? Yes.
...and a swan-dive into fascism is preferable to that because...?
Our political model is janky as fuck. I don't need to explain the pitfalls of a two-party system to you - I already know you fucking hate it or you wouldn't be eyeing a 3rd in the first place. I hate it too. But a two party system is what we have, which means you have three options:
Red (fascism)
Blue (not fascism)
Let the other voters choose Red or Blue for you (abstain or vote 3rd).
Which of those options will do the best job of accomplishing YOUR goals?
What even are your goals? 3rd party as POTUS? You gotta lay the groundwork first. 2016 was the perfect stage for a 3rd party victory within our current model: we had an absolutely hated candidate running on both of the big two; a voterbase just as sick of the status quo as they are now; a Libertarian with a genuinely likable personality, some solid policy stances, and who managed to shift the "crazy" that Libertarians were reputed for to an honestly charming variety of "quirky", and a surprisingly steady stream of coverage by the media. We will never see better conditions for a 3rd victory in our current model.
So how did the Libertarians do with that perfect storm? 3%. They got fucking 3% of the vote. How do those conditions compare to today's? Red is running that same hated sack of shit Trump; but Blue couldn't find a candidate hated as much as Hillary if they tried to - to the contrary, Harris is churning up optimism like I've never seen before. The die-hard Reds and Blues aren't going to change their votes over that, but the folks in the middle are going to be far less inclined to vote 3rd than they were in 2016. 3rds have gotten pretty much zero media attention this time around. They literally do not stand a chance to beat even 2016's 3%, let alone enough to actually win.
Your only way to the top is to change the political model into one that's more favorable to you; and the easiest way to do that is to keep not-fascism in power long enough to get the general population pissed off enough about not having ranked choice that it starts making its way into bigger and bigger elections. Your next-easiest path to victory is insurrection... that most likely both fail and get yourself killed, so please don't do that. Your least-easy path to victory is to allow fascism to take root, as that will push the model even further away from your reach: if that happens it's game over for everyone except the fascists.
If you see a different option that'll lead to a 3rd victory in our current model, I'm all ears; but if not, you still need to set the stage with favorable conditions, to include preventing the stage from being burned to the ground.
Why do you think fascism exists, and why is it present in America?