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Majority of antisemitic incidents committed by leftists, not Islamists or neo-Nazis, research find (justthenews.com)

submitted 3 months ago by OnlyTakesLs@sh.itjust.works to c/conservative@lemm.ee

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[–] jimbolauski@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The claim was made that conservatives are against collective punishment, where is the evidence for that? I challenge that claim because it is nonsense.

Conservatives have always been champions of individual freedoms.

Jackson was a member of the newly formed democratic-repiblican political party.

The Democrat party was founded by Jackson in Jan of 1828, and was opposed by the whig party which became the republican party.

Regardless, conservatives that seek to promote and preserve traditional institutions and values want to continue his legacy by calling for mass deportation. Sounds like collective punishment to me.

Wanting individuals in the country illegally to be deported is not a collective punishment. They're being removed because they don't belong not because they are part of a group.

Post 9/11 there was a surge in crimes and incidents of discrimination against Muslims, Sikhs, and persons of Arab and South-Asian descent, as well as persons perceived to be members of these groups. Where? Largely in conservative stronghold red states. More recently, didn’t Donald call for a “total and complete shutdown” of the borders to Muslims? Smells like collective punishment to me.

I'd need to see sources on that. I do remember CBS trying to gin up news by having people dressed in traditional Muslim clothes go to NASCAR events, guess what nothing happened.

Eleven thousand air traffic controlers were asking for a fair wage, reduced mandatory overtime and higher safety standards that all Americans could rely on. Reagan fired them all. Seems like collective punishment to me.

Striking workers got fired is not a collective punishment.

Opposition to decriminalization of homosexuality and denial of rights for LGBTQ people is a pretty well known conservative position.

What rights were denied? What laws criminalized homosexuality?

Both democrats and republicans alike have been complicit in the collective punishment of Palestinian people. According to U.N. data, of the casualties in Gaza, over 57% deaths were combined women and girls over 14, and children under 14.

No Republicans or Democrats have participated in the Iseral Palestine conflict.

The systematic killing of unarmed noncombatant civilian women and children continues. Where is conservative condemnation for the forced relocation and institutionalized murder of civilians?

Inaction is not a punishment.

[–] Bongo_Stryker@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Conservatives have always been champions of individual freedoms

I don't see evidence of that. I grew up in conservative family in a conservstive community. Conformity, rigid social and economic stratification seemed like the most important, foundational issues to my grandparents, my parents, and the community as a whole.

No Republicans or Democrats have participated in the Iseral Palestine conflict.

Deny all you like, however it is a fact of reality that if you supply weapons to someone you know will use then on unarmed noncombatant civilian women and children then you're complicit in those deaths.Thats a war crime.

[–] jimbolauski@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don’t see evidence of that. I grew up in conservative family in a conservstive community. Conformity, rigid social and economic stratification seemed like the most important, foundational issues to my grandparents, my parents, and the community as a whole.

You're life experiences are one data point and not enough to draw conclusions, even the info you provided is insufficient.

Deny all you like, however it is a fact of reality that if you supply weapons to someone you know will use then on unarmed noncombatant civilian women and children then you’re complicit in those deaths.Thats a war crime.

Supplying weapons does not make someone complicit in the acts carried out with the weapons. Complicit means they participated. Further knowingly supplying weapons used in a war crime is not a war crime, it violates other laws but does not meet war crime criteria.

[–] Bongo_Stryker@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Well again there is a claim being made without evidence or explanation so what am I supposed to do here? Are you saying my personal experiences are not sufficient to form my opinions? Can you suggest a more reliable method of forming opinions?

I'll tell you what's not an opinion: killing civilians is a war crime. Aiding and abetting war crimes is also illegal. Plenty of assholes were found guilty of aiding and abetting war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide in the former Republic of Yugoslavia. Theres people still doing jail time for providing weapons, logistics support and intelligence to those commiting atrocities. Check it out: there is a neat website for the successor to the criminal tribunals for Rwanda and Yugoslavia https://www.irmct.org/en/about

I understand you want to focus on precise language as a way of dodging any discussion of Americans being involved in any such nasty business. I don't think many people reading this will be so easily fooled. A fact is a fact, jack. Providing bombs you know will be dropped on children is not a morally ambiguous act.

[–] jimbolauski@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago

Are you saying my personal experiences are not sufficient to form my opinions?

Generalizations about a group require more than the 10ish people you've interacted with.

I’ll tell you what’s not an opinion: killing civilians is a war crime.

*Intentionally killing

I understand you want to focus on precise language as a way of dodging any discussion of Americans being involved in any such nasty business.

There are specific criteria that have to be met. Being complicit in an act requires knowledge of the act and participation in the act. Filling up the gas tank of a car used as a get away vehicle doesn't make you a bank robber. Supplying a group arms that are later used to commit war crimes is not by itself a violation of arms treaties or internantional law. Once you prove a war crime has been committed you then need to prove that the supplier knew the weapons would be used to commit war crimes.

Do you have evidence that the Israeli government has a policy to target civilians? Killing civilians is bad but for war crimes you need to prove intent. Before you get assed up I'm not disputing individual Israeli soldiers committed war crimes but whether those acts were Israeli policy.

Next do you have evidence that the US knew that the Israeli government was targeting citizens when it supplied Israel with weapons?