this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
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[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Sorry, I was under the impression you were speaking in favor of NATO expansion and think that while the US is bad, it's emdevours in Ukraine are just (this time).

Also “critical support” for what, Russian imperialism? Why does Russian imperialism deserve “critical support” while western imperialism deserves direct opposition?

Revolutionary defeatism

Recognizing that yes, Putin's Russia is a bourgeois state with highly questionable rights for sexual minorities and a husk of its former Soviet glory, its re-nationalized industries are a target for the US imperialist emdevours ripe to be privatized again. (You can see how the NATO supports racist nawalny,.but not the largest opposition force in Russia instead, etc.)

To understand the geopolitical context of the NATO proxy war in Ukraine against Russia it helps to watch the Mearsheimer lecture on it (hardly Russian propaganda)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

Also Ben Norton gives a solid breakdown here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhajzlhcgSk

[–] Schmoo 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Let me approach this from a different angle. If a military defeat is necessary to create revolutionary conditions, is it not then in the best interest of the working class in each imperialist power for the other to win, and does that not then put the working class in each imperialist power at odds with one another?

Don't you believe in internationalism? Solidarity?

How many hundreds of thousands of lives does it cost to create revolutionary conditions, and how can you be so arrogant as to cheer while they're fed into the meatgrinder, believing with such certainty that it means you'll get your chance at revolution?

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

If a military defeat is necessary to create revolutionary conditions, is it not then in the best interest of the working class in each imperialist power for the other to win,

Yes?

and does that not then put the working class in each imperialist power at odds with one another?

Yes I would like the war to end asap and not to see Ukraines working class be forced into the meat grider to fight the imperialists fight..

Don’t you believe in internationalism? Solidarity?

Yes?

How many hundreds of thousands of lives does it cost to create revolutionary conditions, and how can you be so arrogant as to cheer while they’re fed into the meatgrinder, believing with such certainty that it means you’ll get your chance at revolution?

That's such a perverted misrepresentation of material reality I'm not even sure where to begin. 1) Analysis does not mean justification. That's your interpretation of it. 2) where am I cheering it on? You make it sound like I endorse it when in fact it's NATO and it's proponents 3) heightend contradictions improve condition for revolution is a basic historical fact..

[–] Vilian@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

When they point "NATO expansionism", you know that any logical discussion is beyond hope

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

Thanks to your valuable contribution to the discussion