this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
388 points (92.4% liked)
Memes
45673 readers
785 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
For my claim that the percentage of people involuntarily fighting the war? Just the logic. If you find my logic unsound, I'd very much like to hear why.
About what exactly? People being kidnapped on the streets and being forbidden to leave the country so they try to escape through rivers/mountains, or about something else?
https://theconversation.com/why-banning-men-from-leaving-ukraine-violates-their-human-rights-178411
https://uadraftmuseum.ch/ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ukraine-urgently-needs-soldiers-but-some-men-are-desperate-not-to-fight/ar-BB1naQUE https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-recruitment/32310040.html https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66542065 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscription
Quote needed. Please stop putting words in my mouth :). I've said that the west (and especially Boris Johnson) encouraged Zelensky to go to war instead of making peace, linked article talks exactly about that.
You feel therefore it's true huh? You know the punishment for draft dodging is a fine and you can leave the country if you give up citizenship.
All of those are secondhand accounts notably some by successful draft dodgers.
That would be sabotaging a peace talk dumb dumb, do you need everything to be word for word or are you at all capable of critical thought and basic inference.
Let's try that once again: I've backed what I said with logic. If you find my logic flawed - I'd very much like to hear about it.
That's false.
3-5 years of prison time.
https://24tv.ua/ru/nejavka-po-povestke-chto-budet-esli-ne-prijti-voenkomat-shtraf_n2333472
That's impossible do in practice.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/columns/2022/08/17/7363468/
Please link it.
To be based in logic you would need evidence, what you're using is emotion and inference.
Yes, your source also says it's a fine and potential imprisonment after several violations. Not getting grabbed off the street as you so claim but only have anecdotal evidence of. If you don't want to fight and won't be an objector then renounce, move to the border (if you survive that long) and seek asylum literally anyone can do that. You're confusing being forced to make a very hard choice with not having any choice.
They're your links! Just look at your comment and read the links you provided one of which includes your grabbed off the street account given by a draft dodger talking about something he heard second hand. None of those accounts are first hand of someone "grabbed off the street".
No, I'm using evidence, but as you are ignoring it (and even calling hundreds of cases - one case...) - let me link it once again :)
https://uadraftmuseum.ch/ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ukraine-urgently-needs-soldiers-but-some-men-are-desperate-not-to-fight/ar-BB1naQUE https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-recruitment/32310040.html https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66542065 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscription
Again, I've linked evidence, you just choose to ignore it.
I've already told you that it is impossible, and linked evidence, and you've ignored it. But once again, let me link it again.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/columns/2022/08/17/7363468/
None of those have firsthand accounts, quote one and prove me wrong.
The use of deprive and lose negate that dipshit argument. Your sources say the state can't deprive you of citizenship or make you stateless, you can however choose to be stateless.
Not one of those includes talking to an actual person who was grabbed, we've already discussed this.
Again that says what the state can't do, not what you can do.
https://uaconsulate.org/obtaining-ukrainian-citizenship/citizenship-withdrawal
I'm trying to understand what you imagine it like. BBC taking an interview of someone who was grabbed off the street? The chances of it are close to zero because 1) those who are grabbed off the streets are sent to die, not go give interviews 2) it's not a topic that would be interesting to the western audience, because probanly nobody would be shocked by it and people are going to justify it by "oh well Zelensky needs to do that because he is a good guy fighting bad guys", just like they do it on lemmy. 3) it is simply not in the interest of media to capture this, because it would go against the west narrative.
You disregard available evidence because you don't like it, and instead ask for unrealistic.
Let me quote the piece of the article that literally says otherwise.
There's no evidence for it against so dispite that you're certain it's one way and not the other. You're not willing to give a country that's being invaded the benefit of a doubt... I see why you fled you're a sympathizer.
Evidence for what? I've linked evidence to what I was saying, you are ignoring it, again...
What benefit of the doubt?? Some of my family is in Ukraine right now, and each day they fear being kidnapped on the street... What benefit of the doubt you are talking about?? How am I a sympathizer for saying I'm afraid for the lives of those close to me?? You're either incredibly sadistic or what you're saying doesn't make sense...
Do you have even a little bit of empathy towards people being mass imprisoned and sent to die in Ukraine?..
Again that's an inference, that's at best secondary evidence it's not proof.
Yes, the benefit of a doubt. Oh so you're such a coward you left your family to the slaughter but deign to moralize from your age space. I can fear anal probing because I've seen a convincing video or two, it doesn't make it rational and it doesn't make it reality. You're afraid of something that isn't proven and implying that the war can stop if Ukraine simply stops fighting and accepts Russian demands that's Russian sympathizing. You've a rapist mentality about it like oh if Ukraine would have just accepted unreasonable demands they wouldn't have had what's coming to them. You're faking a Ukrainian story, don't try to high horse me shitheel.
If it's happening sure, I have more empathy for those that have died today while you sit here talking shit on your claimed country and appologise for Russian invasions. "Oh look no one got hurt the first time""of yeah people got hurt but they weren't really people right"
Don't call yourself Ukrainian anymore.