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It’s so ridiculous how one of the commenters here normalizes the HAMAS terrorist attack with their uncovered whataboutism.
Hamas is not an acronym.
The whataboutism is valid, because most of the "anti Hamas" crowd would excuse these acts as self defense if they were done by the other Terrorist organization.
The self defense rapes? Wtf?
They're already defending the self defense mass arrests with no charges, the self defense tear gassing of people praying in mosques, the self defense punishing Palestinians for killing a lunatic who killed 20 of them while they were praying, and many other products of self defense™.
I haven't even gotten to the acts that are getting excused by the 7th of October attack. So yes; I wouldn't be surprised if I woke up tomorrow and found the self defense rapes looking me in the face.
Dude, I just don’t understand. For every action there is a reaction, right? You have a solution how to separate wolves from the sheep? Go ahead and pitch it. Otherwise, stop spreading this whataboutism. There was a terrorist attack. It cannot be dismissed. The responsible for it must be punished. You must blame the terrorists for what is happening to the people in Gaza.
Research the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You either don’t understand, or you are paid to spread what you say.
Well if the UN is doing it we all know nothing will get done.
Investigation into Israeli war crimes when?
Investigation into on-going occupier (err “settler”) violence when?
Investigation into 6k dead Palestinian children when?
Let’s investigate all sides.
Whataboutism top marks!
Asking for accountability when war crimes and a genocide is being overlooked isn’t “whataboutism”. Maybe you’d know that if you knew what the term actually meant.
I don't think this is whataboutism, and actually, even if it is, you're using it to deflect a good point. All things that could be considered 'war crimes' should be investigated for all parties.
It's called being fair, and it's a reasonable position.
I'm assuming you aren't aware of the UN having investigated Israeli war crimes in 2009 which was highly regarded by the Middle Eastern delegates specifically for its having investigated and reported on the war crimes of both sides of the conflict.
You might also be unaware that the investigation was originally chartered to only look at and investigate Israeli war crimes, the very opposite of what you seem to think is the UN's position in their investigations. As the delegate to the HRC from Lebanon put it (regarding the involvement of the lead investigator who had also been the UN's lead prosecutor of war crimes in Yugoslavia and Rawanda):
He rejected the first mandate of the Human Rights Council for the Fact-Finding Mission because it called for investigation of violations committed only by Israel. He did not accept that assignment until his request to expand the mandate to include all violations of human rights and international humanitarian law which were committed in the context of the military operations conducted in Gaza was granted.
Unless the UN has changed dramatically in the past decade, they'll definitely be investigating Israeli war crimes.
We’re in 2023. I assume you aren’t aware of how a decade old news isn’t relevant to the discussion anymore.
You seem to indicate it will happen. I’m asking when?
Probably like with literally every other war crimes investigation.
After the hostilities are over so a full accounting can be made.
That’s convenient isn’t it? Lay seige, let nobody in and then “wait” for a war crimes investigation instead of creating channels for an independent investigation when everybody in the world was asking for one, see numerous hospital and school bombings from example. This is the same Israel that didn’t let aid into Gaza, if you have trouble recalling how generous and compliant they are.
Ironically, war crimes investigation in an active war zone is a thing.
Why is that ironic?
Also the UN already set up a similar initiative back on Oct 10th just three days into the war for the same looking at birth sides in the Israel/Palestine conflict (which was an extension of an existing ongoing investigation since 2021):
You might want to spend a bit of time Googling your preconceptions, as well as the difference between parallel preliminary reports of ongoing hostilities and the final reporting (which is typically what gets more attention).
You seem really upset over a thing not existing which in actuality existed literally three days in.
Setting up an investigation over something does not mean it will happen, especially when the area is under siege and the risk of evidence disappearing increases with each bomb dropped. I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at here? Is it the just that they’ve set up an initiative to investigate all war crimes? Cool, again, for the third time, when is that going to happen?
We’re going in circles because you aren’t acknowledging the deplorable conditions, lack of access and the eventual removal/destruction of evidence that could have helped shed light and convict both sides. But, for some reason, you’re trying to convince of something that is either irrelevant or useless.
I’m not upset, but I’m poking at the lip service and inaction of holding people accountable, which typically becomes the case when the West’s interests are at stake.
You were the one just saying that investigations during conflict are a thing pointing to Ukraine, and indeed the UN made the same exact type of commitment as the one they'd made in Ukraine here.
And if you've ever bothered to read any of their war crime reports you'd know the types of evidence they rely on which will absolutely still exist after the conflict is over as well as during their parallel reporting.
In fact, in the 2009 report Israel completely stonewalled the investigation and didn't participate at all, which led to a rather condemning report regarding Israel. Though a few years later the lead investigator said that information which came to light afterwards regarding Israel's behavior actually meant the report was erroneously harsh regarding Israel's conduct and had they participated with the investigation and provided their side of the evidence he'd not have had the report as harshly condemning their actions in the conflict.
So Israel's refusing to participate in investigations can and did actually play out the opposite way from what you think. They just as a matter of principle do not participate, much like how the US refuses to be subject to the ICC.
Maybe the reason it seems we're going in circles is because you just don't actually know much about the subject and are resistant to learn because it goes against your preconceived notions, preferring confirmation of your pre-existing beliefs rather than knowledge that causes dissonance when it disagrees with them.
Lol oh jesus. I’m not going to bother entertaining you any further because:
You’re the one that’s made up their mind about painting me as somebody that isn’t aware how war crimes investigations work even though you’ve repeatedly failed to prove whatever you’re trying to prove.
You’ve also failed to address criticism I’ve made about your position by answers such as “that’s just not how it works” or “It will happen when it happens” while failing to provide any evidence backing those claims.
You’re deflecting and jumping point to point just to prove you’re correct.
Lastly, you’re talking out of your ass when you clearly have no have idea how any of this will pan out.
Later.
Most people commenting seem not to know that the UN a little over a decade ago did in fact investigate both sides and reported on war crimes from both Hamas and Israel.
So comments like "when will the UN investigate Israeli war crimes" have an answer of both "in 2009" and "given historical precedent, yeah they likely will investigate both."
In fact, the 2009 investigation was initially only chartered to look at Israeli war crimes before being broadened to look at all crimes from any side of the conflict.
The announcement of investigating sexual violence in a given attack isn't occurring in a bubble, even if users jumping in to represent "their side" aren't aware of the broader context before commenting.
Equal protection of human rights is not whataboutism and any operator who engages in this type of misinformation is a puppet of the colonial regime