Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
Russia has all the power - they can end the war as soon as they pull their shitbirds out of Ukraine & Crimea.
And hell, get the fuck out of Georgia while we're discussing. Go home, sign up for a 12 step program and figure out your fucking lives while awaiting the warcrimes charges.
Hexbear and .ml covering their ears and yelling "lalalalala"
I found this offensive. Not all people on my instance think what you think.
lemm.ee have "no bigotry" rule, but why offend other instances is okay?
If you think the reputation doesn't apply to you, personally, then it's trivial to move to a different Lemmy server. It's not some immutable characteristic of your being.
I registered on this server 2 years ago and I should move to another server because some people think that this server is for people who support Russia? It's bullshit. It was a leftist server some time ago, but now it's a general purpose server. Also leftists != support Russia.
Anyway, we shouldn't go in comments and say that people from X are jerks.
lemee speedrunning defederation
Ohmygod one person said something about me. Quick defed from the entire instance!!
Nah it's been nearly constantly and consistently bad quality posts and toxicity from that instance.
Slava Palestine!
I am glad to announce you guys that number of tankies here is below 4% according to up/downvotes
It's low enough to know them by their usernames and shame them every time they post something
As long as they're genuine and civil about their opinions, I encourage a space for that discussion. If it's disingenuous trolling or crude propaganda then it becomes a problem.
If it's disingenuous trolling or crude propaganda then it becomes a problem.
That's what tankies do almost by definition. You're talking about the rare breed of communists who aren't tankies.
It's not rare. There are just a lot of loud, terminally online people on Lemmy.
What gives any arbitrary country a mandate to exist though? We recognize that plenty of other social institutions are transient. Nobody demanded a massive international intervention to continue the existence of the Whig Party or the Studebaker Corporation. Why are countries unique and special? Also, this seems like a very modern thing: nobody is demanding we bring back Tanganyika or unwind German unification.
I get the desire to preserve the Ukranian culture and community. But you don't need a sovereign nation for that: compare the re-establishment of the Welsh language and culture, for example.
Would the population have been better off-- at least in the "not exploded" sense-- by backing down with a quick surrender in exchange for some "we'll formally tolerate your cultural differences" legal concessions? I'm sure at this point, it's impractical to negotiate to that, because there's too much bloodshed and burnt bridges on both sides, but it seemed like it was never even on the table: the Western world decided an independent Ukraine had to exist even if everyone involved knew it was going to be a very painful and expensive endeavour to keep it.
... Ukraine decided an independent Ukraine had to exist. They voted for independence in 1991, with over 90% in favor. Ukrainian relations with Russia soured after Russia decided to invade and annex part of Ukraine that they had formerly promised to respect the sovereignity of. Russia is an oligarchy with no controls on the behavior of its leader, who has openly signaled that he believes that Ukrainians are just a kind of inferior Russian who need to be taught their place. The West offered the Ukrainian president refuge. The Ukrainian president refused and chose to stay in his country. Hundreds of men and women sacrificed themselves in the opening days of the invasion to buy their country time to resist. Millions have volunteered.
What deal, exactly, do you expect to be made in that situation? In what way was any of that the West's decision?
Take a step back, and rethink your approach to this. Ukrainians are capable of making their own decisions.
The West chose to make the "fight for your survival" play look more viable. If other countries send enough tanks/planes/missiles, perhaps Russia can be pushed back in a matter of a few months without huge loss of territory.
Conversely, if Ukraine was left to their own military and financial resources-- no sanctions to hamstring Russia, no sweetheart deals on equipment-- they could spend a few weeks burning through what they had, and then perhaps degrading to a years-long insurgency situation akin to Afghanistan. The best story you can sell is "We're going to have years of violence and misery, and if we're really lucky, our occupiers will decide we're too much hassle and expense and leave on their own accord." With that alternative, maybe a brokered deal would look more compelling.
... so your argument is that, hopefully, and this is an insane hope, that if Ukraine was unable to resist militarily at the outset of the invasion, that they MIGHT decide a protracted war was more trouble than survival was worth, and submit to a negotiated genocide?
I don't know why point is he even making. He's looking like a total evil jackass and has only proven that either he loves to troll, is actually trying to make tankies look like homicidal maniacs (they don't need any help) or is actually evil lol!
This is false. Russia has not moved 1cm beyond the southern states where Russians live and were being exterminated by Ukrainian forces.
Putin is not interested in taking all of Ukraine. He could have easily done it by now. Ukrainian army is a joke and virtually non existent now.
The Russians have only been defending their positions, not moving forward to take new ground.
Guys we found the indoctrinated Russian, send him some help
This isn't going to change anyone's mind. The pro-Russia folk believe that Ukraine as a nation never existed in the first place, so they are fine with below option. The top one is just wishful thinking - why would they stop fighting? They stand nothing to gain from this and they'd lose everything they fought so hard to gain.
I'll get down-voted yet again, but I'll keep saying this: If you care about Ukraine - join the war, send in the troops. Otherwise - shut the fuck up. Spamming the flag everywhere does not help. Sending weapons doesn't really turn the tides either. Cheering Ukrainian soldiers into a suicidal counter-offensive - well that's an especially fucked up thing to do.