Where do the Gripens Sweden’s sending over fit in?
this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
80 points (100.0% liked)
Ukraine
8260 readers
669 users here now
News and discussion related to Ukraine
*Sympathy for enemy combatants is prohibited.
*No content depicting extreme violence or gore.
*Posts containing combat footage should include [Combat] in title
*Combat videos containing any footage of a visible human must be flagged NSFW
Donate to support Ukraine's Defense
Donate to support Humanitarian Aid
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
They do basically the same thing. The Gripen is better suited to Ukraine's needs; it's cheaper to fly, able to operate with less infrastructure, and able to fly farther out from home. However, there just aren't that many of them in the world compared to the F-16. The F-16 has been produced way more, and there are countries like Norway that just replaced all of their F-16s anyway. There are other differences in each one obviously, but I'm no expert on it. Both are designed to do largely the same job, and the specifics of performance for each will depend heavily on exactly which version of each plane is handed over seeing as both have had literally decades of development and upgrades.
I imagine that, much like the situation with tanks, you'll just see that different Ukrainian units will operate different equipment depending on what is available. Whoever is running their logistics must have an unbelievable coffee budget, but if that means more tanks and jets operating then they'll make it work
I'm not sure that has been finally decided yet. Sweden say they will send Gripen fighter jets if Turkey allow them into NATO.
This sounds very sensible to me, because as a NATO country Sweden will be better protected, and can more easily free some of their ressources.
Shame on Turkey for blocking Sweden's entry into NATO.
Turkey has been a poor NATO partner under Erdogan.
Thank goodness we found someone to buy all our old model fighterjets just sitting around.
donating
That means they are given for free.
Purged by creator
Good then, right?
Drug dealer: the first hit is always free.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
COPENHAGEN, Oct 11 (Reuters) - Denmark, the Netherlands and the United States will spearhead a new international coalition to help Ukraine establish a future air force based on F-16 fighter jets, the Danish ministry of defence said on Wednesday.
The new coalition intends to build infrastructure around F-16s, including maintenance facilities to support the operation of the planes, the ministry said in a statement.
Denmark and the Netherlands were the first two countries to commit to donating F-16 jets to Ukraine, whose current air force has a fleet of ageing Soviet-era fighter jets, in its war with Russia.
"This is a natural move following the leading role Denmark already has in relation to the military support for Ukraine and especially in relation to the donation of F-16 fighter jets," Defence Minister Troels Lund Poulsen said.
Denmark expects to deliver the first six of out of a total of 19 F-16s to Ukraine in March or April next year, he told broadcaster TV2 on Wednesday.
The original article contains 164 words, the summary contains 164 words. Saved 0%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
this is the USA everyone knows and loves.. someone says they need some F-16s to kill Russians, and we get to work on making sure you have an entire Air Force of them..
It is Europe that has pressured on this, Poland did for a long time donating MIG with other countries. While USA held back on F-16.
It was not until Denmark and Netherlands went solo and decided to donate F-16 that USA followed.
Undoubtedly USA is the biggest single donor to Ukraine, and as a European I praise them for that. But the biggest donors per capita and compared to economy, are the baltic countries and Poland.
and the holdup on the American side was centered on practical/logistical concerns from the beginning.. which is presumably why we are at the point of saying "fuck it, what you really NEED is an entire force dedicated to them".. the F-16 is a complicated platform that requires a lot of support..
but it was great to see the Poles and others offering up hardware and applying pressure
If you are concerned about logistics, you don't just sit around and wait and wait and do nothing. You begin to find solutions.
USA held European countries back, with an argument of not escalating and thread of Russia going nuclear. Which is complete bullshit IMO.
Maybe the administration was/is worried about the Republican half that are parroting Russian talking points?
USA has stated that they want Europe to carry our fair share of the burden, which is 100% understandable, so maybe there also are political games we are not aware of? One thing is for sure, USA did not want to be frontrunner regarding either tanks or fighter jets. Maybe to make Europe take greater responsibility, which frankly we aren't used to, but my own country Denmark, has tried to do our part, together with several other European countries, while a few seem to be holding back.
My assumption is that it's important for the US to avoid optics of being the aggressor since that's what a lot of Kremlin and CCP propaganda portrays.
Maybe that's it, all I know is that USA has avoided to pioneer any help that can be used offensively. Or at least that's what they claim. What's really going on behind closed doors is hard to tell.
Denmark being very progressive on Ukraine aid which we usually aren't on such things. is to put it mildly "interesting". The Danish government is very pro American, all the parties of the government have long histories of cooperation with USA in everything military and intelligence, including the Thule base in Greenland. We also warned USA about nukes going to Cuba, which basically started the cold war. And the Danish government boasted about stellar cooperation with USA when the Snowden shit hit the fan.
I think USA is trying to deflect some of their help, through European initiatives, they may well be involved in.
As we can see on the numbers, USA is by far the biggest contributor.
Thanks for the context, that all makes sense from my perspective. I suppose it's impossible to really know without key information we aren't aware of.
Guess the USA wanted the Russians not defeated like right away, always giving them a little hope that eventually they might actually, probably, ... So that they'd use up their resources.
The USA have battle plans for those kind of things by the tons since the cold war, and in a boring and horrible way it can make sort of a sense. Make the Ruskies lose most of their armies in this war (for comparatively cheap) and everyone will be better off in the future.
High cost right now though.
Slava Ukraine.
IDK sounds kind of evil, although it might help other countries that Russia have their eyes on. Like for instance Kazakhstan Georgia and Belarus.
There is no way Russia is a threat to NATO apart from using nukes, and then it's probably game over for everybody.