this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2024
420 points (94.9% liked)

Today I Learned

17785 readers
537 users here now

What did you learn today? Share it with us!

We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.

** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**



Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.



Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.

If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.

For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.

Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.



Partnered Communities

You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.

Community Moderation

For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

TIL that in January 2014, a seven-year-old girl named Charlotte Benjamin wrote a letter to Lego, pointing out the lack of female characters compared to male ones. A few months later, in June 2014, Lego introduced a "Research Institute" set showcasing female scientists, which quickly sold out.

top 32 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 95 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Legos have typically sold more to boys. For a long time, Legos were meant to be gender neutral, but it didn't work out and 90% of Legos sold were to boys. It was bad enough that Lego felt a need to create girl targetted legos in 2012, to try to capture some of that market. The "Friends" Lego sets were enormously successful, and tripled sales of Legos to girls in the first year it came out.

It's also common to target an audience by having the characters be reflective of the audience. If you write a book targeted at elementary school boys, you usually want it to start an elementary school boy.

So I'm not surprised that most traditional LEGO figures are boys after decades of boy dominated sales.

A source on some of this.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 35 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

They had Lego sets in the 90s that seemed to be designed for girls - the "Paradisia" line. These were like doll-houses (and doll-beaches, doll-horse-ranches, etc. - the sort of places Barbie might go if she were Lego-sized) with tasteful use of pink and plenty of Lego people with feminine outfits and hairstyles.

My sister would get Paradisia sets because she always wanted to do what I was doing, but she didn't actually like playing with them very much. I would end up putting them together myself along with my robots and spaceships.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It's also common to target an audience by having the characters be reflective of the audience. If you write a book targeted at elementary school boys, you usually want it to start an elementary school boy.

Which is pretty funny when looking at Disney vs Ghibli movies because Ghibli actually does that while Disney just goes "Here's a young adult princess, enjoy girls!"

[–] SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Ghibli movies always appealed to me growing up because their female protagonists were very grounded, weren't hyper-feminine to a comical degree, and actually did interesting things, like go on adventures. Their stories also did not focus solely on falling in love with a male character, and focused a lot on their unique internal struggles.

I would strongly suggest that anyone with a daughter give them the opportunity to see Ghibli movies. "Howl's Moving Castle", "Kiki's Delivery Service", "My Neighbor Totoro", "Porco Rosso", "Whisper of the Heart", "The Cat Returns", and "Castle in the Sky" were important to me in my formative years. Boys may like them, too! My son particularly loves "Porco Rosso", "Ponyo", and "Spirited Away."

Definitely give your kids a chance to see them.

[–] batmaniam@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

I really dislike that kind of animation style, just isn't my taste. But in Ghibli, I love it and the stories. I run a plex server for my family and had to warn my mom. My 3 y/o niece doesn't need to see "grave of the fire flies" just yet.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

As a boy I liked reading about boys going on adventures, but I also liked pirates, aliens, superheroes, knights, robots, etc. I think I liked all those more than I liked boys going on adventures. The ideal was a combination of the two, like Treasure Island. A girl going on an adventure was also more interesting if the girl was a princess, and in fact I liked Disney movies.

I don't think I would have liked Ghibli movies when I was a kid. Nausicaa and Mononoke would have been too scary and the others would have been boring. (But I confess that as an adult I only like those two scary ones and I think the others are boring, which is an opinion other people tend not to share.)

[–] SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

"Porco Rosso" is a about an ex-military seaplane pilot who battles air pirates. He also, incidentally, has been turned into a pig. It's both fantastically funny and very occasionally heart-breaking.

It also has one of the best lines in cinema: "I'd rather be a pig than a fascist."

[–] nik9000@programming.dev 2 points 2 months ago

I love that proco being a pig is treated as mildly weird. His relationship with the fascist government is more important to the plot than that he is a pig. No one else is an animal. It's just a thing that happened to him. You can tell it's a big deal to him, but no one else really cares. You could remove him being a pig and the story still works fine. It just makes the regret and inadequatecy more obvious.

I think I like Howel's Moving Castle more. But it's close. That one gave me a whole author.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Even as a young boy, I kind of hated Disney Princess movies. All they did was sing. They were also dumb and would fall for the most obvious villainous stuff, or too apathetic to take a single action of self preservation.

The little mermaid was a notable exception. She did go out on an adventure, and the music wasn’t boring.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The old Disney princess movies (Snow White, Cinderella, and Sleeping Beauty with the exception of Maleficent although I suppose she's not a princess. She should have known not to turn into a dragon because a Disney Prince can't physically hurt a woman.) were not very interesting but that might just be because they're old and we have different standards for movies now. Ariel, Belle, and Jasmine were cool (keeping in mind that Jasmine wasn't the main character). Those were the ones I'm old enough to have seen as a child.

[–] callouscomic@lemm.ee 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

And how much were they sold to boys cause idiotic families pushed them only on the boys?

How many girls got told no and got dolls instead of Legos growing up?

There's always been a bias here.

I know a few women now in their 40s who literally have a Lego room in their home. A room dedicated to playing with legos.

I don't think past data reflects reality that would have occurred.

[–] Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

And how much were they sold to boys cause idiotic families pushed them only on the boys?

Sure, but what was Lego supposed to do about that? They could have started a multi-decade advertising campaign to try to change social perceptions of girls vs boys toys, and maybe that would have eventually paid off. Or they could just make specific "girl" Legos.

As a business that wants to make money, they went with the latter option and it worked really well. And realistically, I don't think we should expect individual companies to try changing society instead of just targeting their products to society as it is.

It's also worth mentioning that when Lego did studies on it, they found that girls played with their toys differently. The girl Legos were designed to be based around a different type of play, that was supposed to be more appealing. It wasn't as simple as this is in pink and has girly lettering on the box.

[–] MerchantsOfMisery@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

Cracks me up that it took Lego several years to barely scratch the surface of your well-made point. This is what happens when you have a male dominated corporate world and and you know when they hire women, they're either hiring women who will agree with them or they're not actually listening to the women that disagree with them.

[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online 5 points 2 months ago

Yes, but boys like to play with girls. Checkmate.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 90 points 2 months ago (2 children)

That wasn't an issue when I was a kid and they all looked like this:

Is that a man chef? A lady chef? Who knows? They all have the vacant smiley face. Even the astronaut one after you throw his (or her) space ship against the wall.

That said, they weren't "minifigures" at the time, they were Lego men. Even the obvious female ones were Lego men. This is a lady Lego Man:

...although it could be a hippy man Lego man.

[–] ravhall@discuss.online 66 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It’s important that we make sure girls know they have to wear dresses and have long hair and boobs.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 39 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm not into long boobs but you do you.

[–] ravhall@discuss.online 11 points 2 months ago

Get out of here, Oxford! ;)

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

There were ones that unambiguously looked like women but the proportions of the Lego minifig are so unfeminine that they were quite ugly.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 6 points 2 months ago

To be fair, they are quite unmasculine too. Inhuman, one might say.

[–] Graphy@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Idk dawg, flat chested buff ladies are where it’s at.

[–] zik@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You just know a lot of those "Research Institute" sets ended up on scientists' desks at research institutes.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I have personally seen them

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Even better. I've got that set.

[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

LPT: if you right click> copy link on the section of the article you want, the link will take you right to that section e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lego_Group#Gender_equality_and_human_rights

no i don't know how to do that on a phone

[–] jbk@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 months ago

i don't think m.wikipedia.org lets you do that sadly

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 3 points 2 months ago

On iOS you hold/3D touch it.

[–] Hydra_Fk@reddthat.com 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What about minions or smurfs?

[–] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

There is one female smurf and that has to be enough for all of them.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

Smurfette Perri

[–] Hydra_Fk@reddthat.com 0 points 2 months ago

1 seems to be a lack of female smurfs.