THE POLICE PROBLEM
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
♦ ♦ ♦
Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
♦ ♦ ♦
RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
♦ ♦ ♦
ALLIES
• r/ACAB
♦ ♦ ♦
INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
♦ ♦ ♦
ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
view the rest of the comments
To start: if you're operating a vehicle, your right to refuse to id is pretty slim (they need a reasonable articulable suspicion usually, but there's a chance they have one. Ask for it.).
That said... The laws on this vary state by state. Some states do have stop and id, others do not. Everyone would do well to know the laws for where they are, if they want to refuse id. Even as a motorist, they need a reason to stop you.
Where I am, they'd need to detain me before I'm required to id (as a pedestrian). I am not allowed to lie about my name, so answering, "Mickey Mouse" could technically give them the legal ammo to require real ID (full name, birth date). For a motor vehicle stop they are required to state why they stopped me as the conversation begins. None of this, "do you know why I pulled you over?" and other pretextual stuff.
Some people know their rights and exercise them. The police are supposed to respect those rights. When they do, nothing happens, the video isn't click-worthy and it doesn't get published. I think you're seeing some selection bias.
Audit the audit, civil rights lawyer and other YT channels try to paint an accurate picture of our rights, how and when we can exercise them, and when the police go so far that someone gets paid.
I'll add: the police having a policy of documenting every interaction, and including the name of the person, does not supercede any rights given by law. They get confused or angry sometimes, but as they'd tell us, ignorance of the law is no defense.
Edits: fixed autocorrect.
Thanks for this extensive explanation. I'll be on a holiday in the USA with my family this summer. And kind of on a road trip between Washington and New York and back. With all the rights that I have ... when asked for my ID ... aren't you just going to advise me to ... ... ?
The answers (as I understand them) :
If you're a US citizen, it depends on the state or DC (assuming that's what you meant by Washington).
If you aren't a citizen, you don't have as many rights. Now any law enforcement officer won't know that you're not a citizen (if you aren't), but it's easiest to just provide papers upon request.
I have never refused to ID, but I've only been asked due to legal reasons like speeding or I was near a border or at customs.
In short, go with the flow, don't break the law, have fun, and enjoy your stay!