this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2023
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Colombia
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"Así como hay fenómenos que compulsan el desaliento y la desesperanza, no vacilo un instante en señalar que el talante colombiano será capaz de avanzar hacia una sociedad más igualitaria, más justa, más honesta y más próspera." Guillermo Cano ---------------------------------------------------
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Is she going to talk about Hamas putting babies in ovens and baking them to death?
Are you trying to justify one atrocity with another atrocity? Do we need to play the game of who is more cruel here? Of the death toll? The video you sent says something about an holocaust in 2023. Well, I think we can count in this Holocaust the 8000 Palestinians killed, of which 2000+ kids and babies, neighbors of those he is crying for. Hospitals shelters, refuge camps bombed. 2M people threatened to death, to starving, incommunicated, ill with no more medical assistance. This Holocaust will only create more hatred and less respect for other's human lives. The same dehumanization of the enemy that Hamas has been fed after decades of apartheid, land occupantion, harassment, impune settlers burning houses and shooting farmers. Yet another impune western colonization process.
Moreover, Hamas has been used by Israel for decades to sabotage the process of creation of a Palestinian state, which, by the way, is part of the Oslo agreements and a consensus of a possible peaceful solution to the conflict. So, they go against this solution, financing a competing group that is against a laic state, and calls for an Islamic only state. Surpsrise, they eventually get to attack to a problematic scale, Israel plays the victim but then enters and destroys everything to the ground.
What do frigging cooked babies atrocities matter in this context? How many times would you need to hear "yes, it's inhuman, horrible", to be able to advance the conversation to acknowledge all the atrocities, injustice and violence without dehumanizing Arabs in general? Imagine that instead of Arabs, Israel army bombed, say, the German city of Dresden, killing thousands of civillians because it's a neonazi hotspot where international refugee centers are attacked. Well all white people are the same. Fuck them, right? It wouldn't even be comparable as those neonazis assholes can't play the role of the only armed resistance available for youngsters, that Hamas plays.
You've just described a war. People die, yes. But it's not Israel stuffing babies in ovens, cutting unborn out of their mother's, torturing and raping families in front of each other, and on. Sorry you're upset about Palestinians dying. It's a sad thing. But it's not going to stop Israel from defending themselves against a threat sworn to destroy them and all Jews.
By your assertion, Hamas is an Israel puppet and this is their masterpiece coup de gras? I'm not sure why any of that would excuse literal terrorism? People are responsible for their own actions. The ones who invaded Israel and brutalized their citizens, are responsible. If Israel was supporting terrorism, it sure seems like that would have been the time to do something about it. But even if they were, the terrorists are still responsible for their actions. They could have chosen not to attack, but they didn't. This is the consequence. Gaza is still standing, despite how eager you and others are to see Israel raze it to dust.
It means everything when the purpose of the conversation is to demonize Israel and ignore the motivation for their actions. It speaks to a level of barbarism far beyond what Israel would ever do, and again, despite how people on this forum want Israel to appear.
Is Dresden harboring terrorists?? It makes a pretty big fucking difference.
So you are not upset about that, then? Do you justify the terror, cruelty, destruction and in the end, the genocide in Gaza, because some a guerrilla from Gaza had inflicted terror and cruelty before? Which is the next step? Do you realize that Israel has killed more innocent people in this attack than Al-Qaeda did in the 11S in 2001 in NYC? (it was ~3000 people) And that even wasn't as cruel because there weren't people artifically starving, they didn't destroy the hospitals, nor ny citizens weren't closed as a herd between militarized walls with no actual escape?
Of course. I don't defend Hamas. I'm blaming the Israel state for feeding them. They are corresponsible of the atrocities of Hamas, and are totally responsible for the palestinian holocaust they are perpretating.
Israel also can choose not to do mass-killings, it could discard mass-deportations (it plans deporting gazans to egypt sinai). It could stop the illegal and immoral settlements. It could stop all the oppression and violence it inflicts even to its own citizens, arabs and jews. Where in the world makes sense for you, blaming the entire palestinian people for the acts of a palestinian guerrilla, but you don't even blame the israel government for ordering a genocide they are actually doing? If I acted like you, I would say that all israelians deserve to die, to be expelled from their homes, because, you know, their army are savaging palestinians, they shoot innocent children even in "not-so-violent" moments, harass and let harass farmers... But I don't think that! I don't want jew people to die, come on! your logic is totally flawed.
Oh yes, sure. Tell it to the hundreds of thousands of inner displaced (quarter of gaza population already?).
You repeat the attrocities of Hamas, and say that Israel would not do that. Why don't you speak of the attrocities that Israel is commiting that palestinians would never do? Again, look yourself to the mirror. Are you a white racist guy with no love for humanity?
That's the trick. Terrorist are those who the media says it is. In my country, spraying some walls, voting, irrupting in fossil fuel conferences is considered terrorism. Read again my comments and look for "terrorism". It doesn't have a definition, so I don't use it, or use it widely. Let's speak of hatred. Of coaction. Of attrocities. Of crimes. Of innocent civilians killed. Then we may discover that white men racist attacks to refugee centers, check many of those boxes, the same boxes checked by those jihadist that are so inhuman. And wow, surprise, Israel is checking lots of boxes too!
Will you question your definitions and conceptions?
By the way. Isreael is an occidental colony in the middle east. Their goal is to conquer all Palestinian land, expel all arabs, aka do an ethnic cleanse (I'm sure they would prefer not having to kill them, right?) and what else? Do their peaceful militar business with the west? Their misinformation businesses? Purple-wash their politics while reducing freedom of expression and driving the israeli people to a religious dictatorship? Oh, smells like super-evil Iran btw.
You're absolutely insane. Terrorists invaded Israel and brutally killed 1500 people, and your response is, eh maybe it's not that bad. It's not about the volume of people killed, it's about the way they were killed and the sworn mission from Hamas to never stop. A mission they affirmed just a couple days ago when they announced they were not apologetic for their actions and they'd do it again. So, this is the response they'll get from Israel. In order for there to be peace, Hamas must be completely destroyed. You pretend that you don't support Hamas, but your eagerness to avoid any discussion of why Israel is doing what they're doing speaks to an irrational fixation. I doubt you're Palestinian or Israeli. You don't know what it's like living under hundreds of rockets launched at you every day, but you demand Israel return to that, and return to the threat of more terrorism on their civilians. They will not, and I don't see why I should prefer innocent Israelis dying over innocent Palestinians. If someone innocent is going to die, at least use their death in service of destroying terrorism so that one day there might be peace.
https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/11/01/hamas-official-promises-carry-out-oct-7-massacre-again-and-again-until-israels-annihilation/
October 2023 https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/17m955y/north_gaza_is_more_beautiful_than_ever_blowing_up/
August 2023 https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230803-israel-far-right-minister-calls-for-annexing-west-bank/
I wouldn't cite a fascist if he wasn't a minister of the Israel government. There is no self defense here, it's a slow motion invasion that lasts decades, aka, colonization process. And there is resistance, some of that is armed and some of that is cruel and totally mislead in my opinion.
You swallowed that there is no way Israel civilians will stop to be victimized. And therefore, let's the others be killed. This is the typical dehumanization thinking of "the enemy". It's that thinking that governments with interests in other's lands, resources, power, feed their citizens in order to get support for their wars.
Really, make the exercise of swapping Israel with Hamas in your comments, and you will read a jihadist terrorist message. You mutually feed your dehumanization. Stop that! Jihadists and those who support their attrocities are the problem. Israel governtment and those who support their attrocities are the problem. You are part of the problem, can't you see you see that? You can change something, then, gz!
And no, I don't know what is like to live under Hamas rockets, the same way I don't know what is like to live under a criminal apartheid with racists checkpoints, land stealing, impune killings, house burnings, permanent harassment and imprisonment just for standing up even without self defense violence (rocks against soldiers that are shooting "us"?)
You have commented nothing about all this long lasting violence. Good faith israelis are against ilegal settlements, occupation, military conscription, etc.