I'm entertained by the fact that everyone gets hung up on how EVs are still not totally green because the electricity comes from coal fired plants or that there's still manufacturing emissions and stuff....

It's like, yeah, but compared to an ICE car, which has all the same problems (environmental cost of manufacturing the vehicle, mining and refining the fuel, transporting it, etc) but EVs don't actively pollute nearly as much during use, and they speak as if these are of equal environmental cost, and they're not. Additionally, ICE vehicles need a lot more oil to operate that needs to be changed and disposed of every few thousand miles.

It's like doing less harm isn't valuable to the people arguing against it, but then again, those are probably the same people who drive their V8 truck to get groceries.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

It’s like, yeah, but compared to an ICE car, which has all the same problems (environmental cost of manufacturing the vehicle, mining and refining the fuel, transporting it, etc) but EVs don’t actively pollute nearly as much during use, and they speak as if these are of equal environmental cost, and they’re not. Additionally, ICE vehicles need a lot more oil to operate that needs to be changed and disposed of every few thousand miles.

None of that is the real problem with electric cars.

The real problem with electric cars is that they're still cars, which means they embody the same arrogance of space as regular cars. In other words, they take up too much space -- both while driving and while parked -- physically forcing trip origins and destinations further apart and ruining the city not only for pedestrians, cyclists and transit riders, but even also for the drivers themselves.

(That last link is from the perspective of a car enthusiast, by the way.)

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm not going to argue with you on that point, I think cars are too big in the first place. With electric vehicles they can be reconfigured to ebikes or something much, much smaller. but I'm only mentioning the ICE vs EVs cost of manufacturing and how "green" they are. It's a step in the right direction; it's not the whole journey. Walkable cities and more compact designs of metro areas is still something that needs to be done, but it's an entirely separate argument to the one I was making.

As someone who primarily drives because I live in a small suburb in the middle of a farm region, I'd be happy to park at the edge of a larger city and walk/bike/e-scooter/transit my way into the city. I think transit costs and the costs associated with most of the bike/e-bike/scooter services to be a bit high, given that I just drove to the city in the first place, but that's a minor gripe among the plethora of other issues it could and would likely solve to have the city more pedestrian friendly.

Personally, given where I live, I'm more or less obligated to have a car, and if that car is a PHEV or full EV, would benefit the world overall; maybe not by a lot, but certainly more than using ICE vehicles to get around.

[–] Beliriel@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I just visited the US and I was dumbfounded how insane your city planning is. Like you literally can't just make a short shopping trip on foot. You'd have to walk half an hour to even reach basic stores because the sprawl is so bad (City in CA with about 100k inhabitants) and then there are parking spaces everywhere. Like atleast half to 2/3 of the land space is used for parking. And ofc most parking is planned so they can accomodate everyone which means they're always atleast half empty.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

I live in Canada, we're not any better. And for someone who lives here, it doesn't make sense to me either.

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