Pathfinder 2e General Discussion

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How do you think Paizo will balance the upcoming large ancestries? (kbin.social)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by PrinzKasper@kbin.social to c/pf2general@pathfinder.social

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Paizo has confirmed that the Centaur and Minotaur ancestries in the upcoming Howl of the Wild book will be large size by default, with a heritage each that make them medium.

Now thematically, I think that makes sense, 5e's ponytaurs always seemed like a cop-out. However mechanically, large size has the benifits that it allows you to reach more squares, even without additional reach, and makes it impossible for small creatures to grapple you. So I'm wondering if that's powerful enough to require some kind of downside to balance it out.

What do ya'll think?

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[–] RQG@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I'm really happy that Paizo decided to go with keeping them large. To me one of the main draws of playing a Centaur or Minotaur is that those are a freakin half horse half human with all that comes with it, or big horned bovine humanoid. The size to me was part of the fantasy. The D&D way is just reflavored humans not a new ancestry.

As for balancing, there is the whole "what if another PCs rides the centaur" scenario (which you still have with pony centaurs and small PCs) and the reach and using larger weapons for more damage dice issue. I think the first isn't an issue at all in PF2e and the second, well, I am curious.

Going about reach and big weapons by just saying "but you don't have this" would seem weird. Those are generally applicable rules in the game system. But offsetting them with downsides would be tricky as you'd need a lot to make up for those upsides. Then there is grappling larger enemies and immunity to small grapplers but also the whole "I don't fit through this" issue which is a downside but can halt adventures completely. I hope Paizo find a good solution, I don't have one.

[–] mal2@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Centaurs may not have reach, if they're classed as Large (Long) instead of Large (Tall). There's a chart in the Size, Space and Reach rules that lays out the difference. The Centaur in the Bestiary works that way. The Minotaur ought to get 10 feet of base reach with melee weapons, though.

Also, larger weapons don't inherently use larger damage dice in second edition. A Tiny greatsword does 1d12 damage, the same as a Huge greatsword. It's possible that Large creatures will get a permanent Clumsy 1 in exchange for a flat +2 damage the same way that Enlarge does, though. That's how they worked the feat-based size increase for Lizardmen. It's also possible they'll just get racial +2 Strength and -2 Dexterity or something instead.

[–] RQG@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Good points! Especially the long versus tall classifications. Long would make sense for the centaur. Also I must have mixed up my editions with the weapons.

[–] jajohn@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

A minotaur like that sounds like great fun to play as, but also very much shoehorning the race in to martial and easily outperforming other ancestries there.
So I wonder what the cons are going to be.

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