this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2024
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UK Politics

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[–] frankPodmore 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"I think my experience of 18 years of being an independent parish councillor and a district councillor has demonstrated that the system has utterly failed and government is absolutely incompetent for trying to deliver infrastructure services to local people."

A typically coherent NIMBY comment, here. 'The government is terrible at delivering infrastructure. That's why I'm opposed to the government delivering infrastructure.'

Also notable that 14 of those 18 years were under a Conservative government dedicated to cutting government services and infrastructure.

[–] thehatfox@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable. "Infrastructure" in terms of discussing housing developments tends to mean roads, doctors surgeries, shops etc. The things that don't seem to get built (despite promises) when both green and brownfield sites get cleared and blanketed in suburbs.

There are always some who so deeply NIMBYish that they will oppose anything and everything for the sake of it, and there will never be any appeasing them. But the most common real complaint I hear about new housing is the lack of new services to keep up with the increasing population. If Labour could finally make those kinds of infrastructure commitments really stick to new housing projects I think a lot of NIMBYness would subside.

Most people don't object to having a few more neighbours, but they do object to feeling they have to fight them for a GP appointment.

[–] frankPodmore 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

The things that don’t seem to get built (despite promises)

But this is flatly untrue. There are laws requiring local authorities to take this into account and they can compel developers to contribute either financially or in-kind. What causes the problems with doctor's surgeries is not new developments, but austerity, which is why it's a problem everywhere.

But even aside from austerity, nimbyism significantly contributes to the problems you've identified, at the local level both directly and indirectly. E.g., here's an example of NIMBYs trying to prevent a school building a garden (a direct example). But, it also happens indirectly:

  • NIMBYs oppose housing, infrastructure and business development
  • Prices rise
  • No one can afford housing in the area
  • People leave for jobs/houses elsewhere
  • Businesses can attract neither investment nor customers, because no one lives there any more, so they shut down, so there are even fewer jobs and more people leave
  • The economic case for maintaining existing schools, hospitals and other infrastructure in the area collapses, so they close
  • NIMBYS complain that their infrastructure has been shut down and that their high street is terrible

This is the reason that, e.g., many rural schools have shut down. There was a particularly good example within the last year or so of a councillor celebrating preventing a housing development and then, mere weeks later, the very same councillor complaining that the DfE had ordered the local school to be shut down because there weren't enough children in the village!

EDIT: A further indirect consequence of NIMBYs causing the kinds of problems they claim to oppose is that you simply cannot have economic growth without development. When so much development is blocked and delayed, it leads to less growth, which means government revenue falls, which means less money for development... etc.

[–] thehatfox@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But this is flatly untrue. There are laws requiring local authorities to take this into account and they can compel developers to contribute either financially or in-kind.

There have been multiple developments in my own area where the initial proposals included service provisions alongside major housing. But for each one the infrastructure commitments get dropped but the houses go up anyway.

We may well have laws on the books that are supposed to address this, but they do not seem to be working.

What causes the problems with doctor’s surgeries is not new developments but austerity, which is why it’s a problem everywhere.

I agree austerity is also a problem, and it has to be addressed to make provision for community infrastructure.

We must have a carrot and stick approach to this issue. It’s not unreasonable for people to object to their communities being turned into giant dormitories. If they can’t make that heard at local planning committees they will make it heard at the ballot box. Labour’s reforms will do no good if they are all undone in a backlash at the next election.

Whatever the underlying reasons, service infrastructure must be delivered alongside housing commitments. It’s the only way to ensure this shift will be politically sustainable. I am not convinced that only increasing housing supply will itself attract infrastructure development later. It’s not really doing so in my own community.

[–] frankPodmore 2 points 1 week ago

It’s not unreasonable for people to object to their communities being turned into giant dormitories.

Counterpoint: yes it is. All communities are full of houses that are empty for a lot of the time while people go to work elsewhere. My road in inner-city London is exactly like this. The 'dormitories' meme is just another NIMBY talking point, I'm afraid, which makes no sense at all. What are we going to do, forbid people to work outside of 'their communities' (whatever that means)?