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Google engineers want to introduce DRMs for web pages, making ad-blocking near-impossible in the browser (github.com)

submitted 1 year ago by BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

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And since you won't be able to modify web pages, it will also mean the end of customization, either for looks (ie. DarkReader, Stylus), conveniance (ie. Tampermonkey) or accessibility.

The community feedback is... interesting to say the least.

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[–] eth0p@iusearchlinux.fyi 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (19 children)

This post title is misleading.

They aren't proposing a way for browsers to DRM page contents and prevent modifications from extensions. This proposal is for an API that allows for details of the browser environment to be shared and cryptographically verified. Think of it like how Android apps have a framework to check that a device is not rooted, except it will also tell you more details like what flavor of OS is being used.

Is it a pointless proposal that will hurt the open web more than it will help? Yes.

Could it be used to enforce DRM? Also, yes. A server could refuse to provide protected content to unverified browsers or browsers running under an environment they don't trust (e.g. Linux).

Does it aim to destroy extensions and adblockers? No.
Straight from the page itself:

Non-goals:

...

Enforce or interfere with browser functionality, including plugins and extensions.

Edit: To elaborate on the consequences of the proposal...

Could it be used to prevent ad blocking? Yes. There are two hypothetical ways this could hurt adblock extensions:

As part of the browser "environment" data, the browser could opt to send details about whether built-in ad-block is enabled, any ad-block extensions are enabled, or even if there are any extensions installed at all.

Knowing this data and trusting it's not fake, a website could choose to refuse to serve contents to browsers that have extensions or ad blocking software.

This could lead to a walled-garden web. Browsers that don't support the standard, or minority usage browsers could be prevented from accessing content.

Websites could then require that users visit from a browser that doesn't support adblock extensions.

I'm not saying the proposal is harmless and should be implemented. It has consequences that will hurt both users and adblockers, but it shouldn't be sensationalized to "Google wants to add DRM to web pages".

Edit 2: Most of the recent feedback on the GitHub issues seems to be lacking in feedback on the proposal itself, but here's some good ones that bring up excellent concerns:

Browsers developed and distributed by large tech firms have a conflict of interest with holding back or limiting attestation. Attestation enables the web to be restricted in a way that benefits tech firms. For example, Office 365 could require that it is used only on Windows and/or only through Edge.
Similarly to what I brought up, having the ability for websites to trust a (browser, os) tuple could allow for certain browsers to be preferred, simply because they do not support extensions.
How it will create hostile discrimination, and two-tiered services based on whether browsers are attested or not.
The proposal does not do an adequate job explaining how a browser may be attested to.. Would this require something like Secure Boot in order for a browser to be attested to? That would discriminate against users with outdated hardware lacking support for boot integrity, or users who don't have it enabled for some reason or another.

[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It doesn't aim to destroy extensions but point #1 within the problem statement:

Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain, but they often want or need to do it without paying directly. These websites fund themselves with ads, but the advertisers can only afford to pay for humans to see the ads, rather than robots. This creates a need for human users to prove to websites that they're human, sometimes through tasks like challenges or logins.

[–] eth0p@iusearchlinux.fyi 2 points 1 year ago

Oh, for sure. When bullet point number one involves advertising, they don't make it hard to see that the underlying motivation is to assist advertising platforms somehow.

I think this is an extremely slippery and dangerous slope to go down, and I've commented as such and explained how this sort of thing could end up harming users directly as well as providing ways to shut out users with adblocking software.

But, that doesn't change my opinion that the original post is framed in a sensationalized manner and comes across as ragebaiting and misinforming. The proposal doesn't directly endorse or enable DRMing of web pages and their contents, and the post text does not explain how the conclusion of adblockers being killed follows from the premise of the proposal being implemented. To understand how OP came to that conclusion, I had to read the full document, read the feedback on the GitHub issues, and put myself in the shoes of someone trying to abuse it. Unfortunately, not everyone will take the time to do that.

As an open community, we need to do better than incite anger and lead others into jumping to conclusions. Teach and explain. Help readers understand what this is all about, and then show them how these changes would negatively impact them.

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