this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2024
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[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 30 points 1 month ago (10 children)

No it fucking didn't... it exposed how our two party system forces us to choose between two shitty choices... often times the Democrats have better policy positions but immigration isn't one of those times.

[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Doesn't help that Bidens border policy is almost exactly Trumps policy but elected Democrats stopepd caring about the camps after Biden won. Now no ones fighting. Xenophobia has a cozy home in both parties.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Not to beat a dead horse but...

This joke made it into Family Guy because of the sheer insanity of the US populace at the time. Everyone knows the next few frames are everyone in the crowd cheering like crazy for this obvious fucking statement.

Even Democrats would accuse you of "supporting the terrorists" if you were anti-war. Bush won the popular vote in 2004 because of the war, and called it a mandate.

Bush had even considered using anti-terrorism laws to target fucking Quakers who protest war because non-violence is a central tenet of their fucking religion. Nobody batted a fucking eye.

So yes, racism, xenophobia, and violence has always had a home in both US parties.

[–] macattack@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

This wasn't isolated to the Democrats and Republicans, IIRC it was the prevailing opinion across the nation irrespective of party.

I'm sure there were Independents, and that were out there also looking for blood in the moment. I wouldn't say because racism/xenophobia/violence exists within a group, it always has a home w/ said group (unless there was a vast majority that held the same belief) and so I'm always prone to push back when ppl paint w/ such a broad brush.

I think that these generalizations that insinuate that both sides are equally inviting racism/xenophobia/violence does a disservice to the nuances of reality and encourage nihilsm/indifference.

[–] macattack@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I do think there is nuance in accepting that the plan when there's 20K crossing per month is different when the number spikes 10x to 200k. Dems were unprepared for enforcing policy when things shifted to record numbers for sure, but I wouldn't classify that as 'not caring'.

[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

AOC, under trump, toured the facilities (facilities that predated the Trump admin btw) and demanded acces to many of them while people tried to stop her. Interesting no ones doing that under biden despite there being no changes in the law, the facilities, the agents, or even the higher ups of the agency. That's textbook not caring, nothing changed except Democrats desire to insure the wellbeing of migrants.

[–] macattack@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Does AOC need to visit a border to talk immigration when migrants are being bused into NYC daily? Curious if you live in a place where migrants are being bussed or not, because I do, and the reason no one is talking about migrant camps at the border is because they have migrant populations within the neighborhoods in a way that they didn't pre-covid. There's two migrants w/ toddlers less than two blocks from my apartment that panhandle daily. There's migrants panhandling outside of the places I grocery shop and the bars that I frequent downtown. Immigration is tangible in a way that it wasn't pre-Covid

I think that, irrespective of party, Americans across the board have become more concerned about immigration, partially due to fear-mongering by Republicans for sure, but also due to Democratic strongholds getting a steady flow of immigrants (bussed in by Republicans, fwiw, but a level of immigration that they were not prepared for) and the conflicts for city resources and care have had an outsized impact on perspective/policy and expectations by the population as a whole. It isn't that Democrats suddenly changed their perspective while everyone else remained the same. Every group of individuals polled increasingly became concerned about migration.

It's easy to frame it as 'Dems don't care', and I'm not sure what you identify as, but looking at the data, people who identify as Dems actually care more than Republicans and Independents.

I do not want to say that I am happy with the Dems accepting Republican-backed immigration policy positions but I do acknowledge just how unpopular immigration has become within Democratic circles let alone Republicans (and Independents who as a whole are historically more conservative than Democrats).

Curious what would you suggest as a tenable immigration solution in 2024 that you think would likely get backing from Republicans and Democrats?

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Is the migrant caravan in the room with you right now?


But seriously, this is the damage we've done to ourselves. We're one of the main countries that poisoned our planet with CO2, the main country that got all the benefits of the Industrial Revolution without being bombed back to the fucking stone age like half of Europe in WWII.

With climate change spinning out of control, people want somewhere more secure, more safe, and studies show areas like Michigan will be a lot less effected by climate change than, say, Mexico city.

Can you stop climate change? Oh, no you can't?

Then the migrants won't stop coming. Maybe we need to address the bigger social issues internationally that bring people here to begin with instead of blaming it on the immigrants. Like maybe accepting that the US has a history of fucking over the global south, for one thing.

(We also bombed the living fuck out of the middle east for a decade, and Europe has been dealing with refugees from our fucking illegal war for over a decade now. Maybe we're not the ones to talk about not knowing how to deal with immigrants when we made the EU deal with the aftermath of our dumbfuck wars.)

Further, the main thing you could do to curb immigration is jailing people who hire immigrants who don't have legal paperwork. If there aren't fucking jobs waiting for them, fewer of them will show up.

And finally, the girl I recently met who ran from Venezuela to get here has better education credentials than me, and everyone acts like she doesn't know shit because she went to universities in Venezuela and took classes in Spanish instead of in the US in English. There is materially no difference! The person panhandling might have a fucking degree but our country doesn't give a fuck because they don't speak English well enough. It's a joke and not their fault we act like their education is worthless because they speak a different fucking language. We have people with high level degrees driving Uber for fucks sake because no one cares because their education wasn't in English.

Give me a break with this shit.

[–] macattack@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I just want to point out that, reading between the lines, the solutions that would make a difference to change immigration are:

  • Solve climate change
  • Undo the compounding effects of a war that destroyed a country
  • Jail people who hire undocumented immigrants

Your first solution requires Republicans to believe in climate change (and Independents like Joe Manchin not to get in the way and water down the bill that passed). Your second solution requires investing billions in developing countries to right our wrongs and your third sounds like a Republican talking point.

This is why I push back on the narrative that oversimplifies immigrataion as Republicans and Dems equally don't care about immigration.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Maybe we could do something reasonable, like, I don't know, taxing billionaires and super wealthy, corporations more. 🤷‍♀️

[–] macattack@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

This is literally part of Kamala Harris' campaign? Are you not-American or just not-informed? https://portside.org/2024-08-23/kamala-harris-5-trillion-tax-plan

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