Lauchs

I ow a how much?

Appreciate the Pew link! I'd note thought that it talks about the general election, not primaries.

If the progressives don't outnumber the moderates and centrists even within the Democratic party, then that seems a pretty good indication that American politics is roughly in line with American attitudes, which would mean democracy is working as it should.

Here's the thing, Sanders got 43% of the primary vote iirc and Clinton got 55. This happened, despite the middle age and elderly voters showing up in significantly larger numbers than the young, presumably progressive ones. If the young voters had shown up and their vote patterns held, Sanders would likely have had a comfortable win.

What on Earth are you trying to say?

Harris and Biden were on the ballot in 2020, as were more progressive candidates. As usual, more moderates and centrists did the boring grown up work of showing up and voting in the primaries and thus, Biden won.

Homogenous really? Are you really going to pull that racist dogwhistle…

Oh for fuck's sake. If you'd done any reading whatsoever on the subject, you'd know regional/ethno/religious fault lines tend to pop up (and get reinforced) in PR systems. (Germany with the East West divide, Spain has Catalan/Basque, Israel has well, everything and so on.) Even here, you might have noticed the massive urban rural divide in the last election?

Edit: Denmark is also overwhelmingly urban, some 80+% live in urban centres.

PR makes even more sense for diverse countries because there is more representation for different voices in the country.

Which diverse countries are you thinking of that have done or are doing well under PR without issues that would be terrifying to see in Canada (the rise of the AFD, for example.)

Competition always leads to better incomes.

I think you mean outcomes, and in a lot of cases, sure but in politics, it doesn't seem to.

I've given you a murderer's row of countries that are having huge problems with PR. While the theory is nice, the reality of how it plays out hasn't been particularly great. Under FPTP, it's hard to imagine a single issue (say, anti trans) party ever gaining any sort of traction, whereas in PR, you could easily see them get some 10% of the votes and become a force to be reckoned with.

Do you really want Pierre Poilievre and Justin Trudeau to get away with having control of most of the seats?

Not particularly but I'd rather one of them or Singh than some murky backroom dealings deciding the nation. And frankly, the reason we can point to Trudeau is because he and his party are accountable for their actions in government!

I'm kind of stunned that you are so unconcerned that the system for which you are advocating has been fostering Far Right parties that are increasingly gaining power and are almost unworkable in a First Past the Post system.

She was on the ballot in the primaries, which is entirely the point of the post.

Yup. Young votes don't show up to the general or primaries at anywhere near the same rate as boomers. And sadly, democracy caters more to those who vote.

Denmark does use PR and in a small, fairly homogeneous country it has basically worked.

But look at say, Germany which is now dealing with the rise of the AFD, or Italy which has been a mess for the last 20 years and recently elected a hard right Christian anti immigrant party, or the Netherlands where the parry of banning the Qur'an is now in charge of immigration policy, or Greece which has been so woefully run that it's required three bailouts from the IMF between 2010 and 2015.

Like, it's adorable to assume there would only be 4 parties but almost no PR system in the world keeps that few parties, there is a huge incentive to be a single issue party and try to play kingmaker.

And Zimbabwe? That's your comparison for BC? Really?

PR is one of those things that sounds nice until you really dig into the mechanics, which end up as consolidating power in political elites (they generally control the list of candidates) sketchy backroom deals and almost zero accountability.

Meh, I'd be pretty stunned if Bernie had won more votes and then the super delegates turned around and gave it to Clinton.

Given that we didn't get anywhere near that, it's a moot point. Let's get the majority of votes in a damn primary before we start complaining about what the super delegates might or might not do.

2016 or 2020.

Totally fair point about 2024. Though I would suggest that given Sanders' outspoken opposition to what's happening in Gaza, we might have a very different situation in the middle East had progressives voted in sufficient numbers in 2020. (Which in of itself would be a good thing but when I see complaints about Harris also being bad for Palestineans, this is my first thought.)