this post was submitted on 07 Feb 2024

50 points (81.2% liked)

News

23296 readers

4289 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil

Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.

2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.

Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.

3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.

4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.

Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.

5. Only recent news is allowed.

Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.

6. All posts must be news articles.

No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.

7. No duplicate posts.

If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.

8. Misinformation is prohibited.

Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.

9. No link shorteners.

The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.

10. Don't copy entire article in your post body

For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

rjc@lemmy.world

Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world

dezmd@lemmy.world

Tenthrow@lemmy.world

JonsJava@lemmy.world

gedaliyah@lemmy.world

Blackbeard@lemmy.world

little_cow@lemmy.world

jeffw@lemmy.world

enu@lemmy.world

Congressional debate cut short in California by shouting and Oct. 7 denial (www.haaretz.com)

submitted 9 months ago by AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

29 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Archive link: https://archive.ph/M3WBw

In the clips and in a full video of the event, audience members in the Palo Alto City Council chambers are seen interrupting the proceedings and making false statements. The event mirrored other public meetings in the Bay Area since Oct. 7 where pro-Palestinian activists have vilified Israel and either defended Hamas as a "resistance" movement or denied its brutality on that day.

Julie Lythcott-Haims, a candidate who is currently a member of the Palo Alto City Council, faced more of the vitriol.

"I deplore the actions of Hamas on October 7th," she said, to one loud "boo!" from a female audience member.

"Really? Really?" Lythcott-Haims said. "They butchered people, murdered people, raped people and took hostages."

At mention of the word "raped," the audience exploded with anger. Amid the swell of noise, a boy draped in a Palestinian flag yelled about Hamas: "They did not murder anyone!"

When organizers regained control of the room, Lythcott-Haims said: "I did not know that that would be a controversial statement."

(video of the exchange is in the original paywalled article but archive.today turns embedded videos into screenshots, so for those who want to see it but can't open the paywalled article here's the direct link: https://www.instagram.com/danielleyablonka/reel/C2yyfi9sRMx/)

MBFC rating: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/haaretz/

all 32 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] natecox@programming.dev 37 points 9 months ago (2 children)

It’s a weird time to be alive, where people don’t seem to realize that you can criticize both sides of a conflict and not be a hypocrite.

[–] butt_mountain_69420@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Criticizing both sides is antisemitic.

[–] AstridWipenaugh@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Here, you dropped this: /s

[–] natecox@programming.dev 3 points 9 months ago

Not gonna lie, I was torn on if the comment was serious or satirical lol

[–] butt_mountain_69420@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Criticize Israel and see how quick your comment is deleted for some bullshit.

[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Or arrested as an Israeli. PS: They passed legislation that just viewing pro-palestinian posts can get you jailed. Example. Just scrolling through feeds can get you arrested.

[–] butt_mountain_69420@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Something a totally honest completely legitimate non-terrorist state would do.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It is not antisemitic to criticise the genocidal lunatics and also the lunatics who'd be doing genocide if they had any power to act on wanting to

[–] butt_mountain_69420@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

See, that's what I thought, but the mods here don't see it that way. Try it out. Be specific about who the genocidal lunatics are, point out that what they've done is an actual "Crime Against Humanity." If you want to be permabanned, point out the irony vis-a-vis 1946 and today.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

It happens literally all the time.

[–] speaker_hat@lemmy.one 1 points 9 months ago

The pro-Palestinians (or pro-Hamas) in this article are not criticizing, they are lying (i.e. claiming Hamas didn't kill anyone).

These a difference between criticizing and lying.

Generally, I do agree that this whole situation is wrong, and I wish well for all the innocents.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's so strange to me that people seem so unable to see that two sides can actually be both wrong.

Hamas should be exterminated, they're terrorists of the worst kind, monsters that kill children and should not exist.

The Israeli government should be exterminated as Lthey're terrorists of the worst kind, monsters that kill children and should not exist.

[–] speaker_hat@lemmy.one 2 points 9 months ago

This is a war on existence

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

At mention of the word “raped,” the audience exploded with anger. Amid the swell of noise, a boy draped in a Palestinian flag yelled about Hamas: “They did not murder anyone!”

Jesus fucking Christ. This sort of shit is why I emphasize Hamas's actions.

[–] AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

You can look at the face of that kid in the video as he's being made to say that Hamas "didn't murder anyone".

(the woman who was being booed by the Oct 7 truthers is Julie Lythcott-Haims)

October 7 denial is a thing and sadly we have lots of these tinfoil folks on Lemmy:

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

While I'm not denying the atrocities committed on October 7th, the word "massacre" is very misleading. A lot of bad things happened on October 7th, but the evidence increasingly points to massacres not being one of them.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Over a thousand people died, unless you want to try to argue that everyone in Israeli territory died to a single digit number of tactical missile strikes, it was a massacre.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social -4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

1-You're including military personnel.

2-The IDF killed their fair share of people during the attack.

3-Many people died in the crossfire due to the IDF prioritizing killing Hamas soldiers over protecting civilians.

Let's assume that, in an optimistic estimate, 1/4 of civilians who died on October 7th were killed by the IDF (that's less than 200 people). That means the number of civilians Hamas killed is 50% of the total, and there's no way that can be counted as a massacre.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

1-even if it was 100% that doesn't make it not a massacre

2-that also does not make it not a massacre, in fact all that makes it is a double massacre presuming the IDF killed a similar number of people

3-see point 2, but then add the fact that had they not attacked that day those people would not have been caught in a crossfire to begin with

4-once again, just because they're soldiers does not mean they do not count towards the total when determining what is or isn't a massacre.

The US directly killed only a few thousand civilians in Iraq, and yet it is still fair to blame them for the deaths of hundreds of thousands because their engagement in the Iraq war is what directly led to those hundreds of thousands dying. Same applies to Hamas' choice to raid over the border.

And before you even try to show your whole ass and talk shit about how they're freedom fighters like Nat Turner or whatever anti colonial freedom fighter you want to fetishize, Nat Turner didn't kill more of their own people than the cited enemy, nor did they create such an oppressive police state that it led to the Arabic translation of "I can't Breathe" Bedna Na3iish.

You ain't Palestinian, you probably don't even know the difference between a ع and a غ, so how about sit down and fucking listen when one of us tells you, yes, they are also horrible people, they are the equal partner of Israel in Gaza's oppression.

[+] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

3-see point 2, but then add the fact that had they not attacked that day those people would not have been caught in a crossfire to begin with

The logical conclusion of this is that any resistance against Israel is bad because it will inevitably harm unrelated people.

4-once again, just because they’re soldiers does not mean they do not count towards the total when determining what is or isn’t a massacre.

No??? A massacre implies either civilians or otherwise defenseless people. Otherwise every war would be a massacre.

The US directly killed only a few thousand civilians in Iraq, and yet it is still fair to blame them for the deaths of hundreds of thousands because their engagement in the Iraq war is what directly led to those hundreds of thousands dying. Same applies to Hamas’ choice to raid over the border.

By that logic nobody should take any acts of resistance, because Israel is able and willing to use anything as an excuse to oppress Palestinians.

You ain’t Palestinian, you probably don’t even know the difference between a ع and a غ, so how about sit down and fucking listen when one of us tells you, yes, they are also horrible people, they are the equal partner of Israel in Gaza’s oppression.

Yeah Hamas are horrible people. They're also freedom fighters. Both of these things can be true at once. Whether you're a freedom fighting depends more on your opponent than your internal policies, and doesn't excuse Hamas from a good number of their leadership needing to be in prison or hanged.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

inevitably harm unrelated people

ISTG if this is one of those "Avoiding civilian casualties is white privilege" arguments I will find you and hang you with my Kufiyah for thinking my people are uncontrollable animals who can't help doing war crimes.

Massacre implies civilian or otherwise defenseless people

Also, Massacre is a large number of people being killed specifically and individually, Cannae was a massacre, one of the largest in human history actually, and yet not a one of the involved parties was defenseless or a civilian.

nobody should take acts of resistance

Ok yeah so you do actually just see us stinky brown people as incapable of doing resistance without killing indiscriminately, choke on your fake woke shit and die.

They're also freedom fighters

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Whether you're freedom fighting depends more on your enemy than your internal policies

OH MY GOD YOU ACTUALLY ARE THAT STUPID! HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!

That is some "the Nazis are anti-colonial allies because they fought the British and the French!" tier idiocy you just pulled out of your stank ass.

Hey moghafil, guess where they get the money to buy those Iranian rockets, from Israel itself, they were literally a sock puppet enemy stood up by Bibi to be easier to justify war crimes against than Fatah.

They're not freedom fighters, they're the rez boss family, and fetishizers like you are their useful idiots.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social -3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

ISTG if this is one of those “Avoiding civilian casualties is white privilege” arguments I will find you and hang you with my Kufiyah for thinking my people are uncontrollable animals who can’t help doing war crimes.

No, it's that any and all acts of violent (and peaceful given that Israel is... Israel but let's set that aside) resistance will generate harm to civilians one way or another. That comes with the whole package of war.

Ok yeah so you do actually just see us stinky brown people as incapable of doing resistance without killing indiscriminately, choke on your fake woke shit and die.

What the fuck? Bruh I'm also "brown" (Egyptian to be specific), and that's not at all what I'm trying to say here. I never at any point defended the indiscriminate killing. I'm saying that the moment you have a large group of people shooting at each other harm will come to bystanders. Especially when you have nonsense like the Hannibal directive at play.

That is some “the Nazis are anti-colonial allies because they fought the British and the French!” tier idiocy you just pulled out of your stank ass.

To use a more accurate analogy, the IRA were and are terrorists who have a decent amount of blood on their hands. They still were freedom fighters.

Hey moghafil, guess where they get the money to buy those Iranian rockets, from Israel itself, they were literally a sock puppet enemy stood up by Bibi to be easier to justify war crimes against than Fatah.

Bruh just drop the ad hominem. Also Israel supports Hamas financially, that's true. But that's more of a case of Israel abusing an existent movement for its goals rather than any actual cooperation.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I've read reports about woman being raped to death.

That counts

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

First: A lot of these are turning out to be made up Israeli propaganda.

Second: You'd need that as a large scale to call it a massacre. And the evidence so far doesn't towards that as a possibility.

[–] speaker_hat@lemmy.one 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Provide source, otherwise false.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-personnel-false-information-7-october-attack

They link a Haaretz article as their primary source but it's in Hebrew.

Edit: More recent source: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-31/ty-article-magazine/.premium/death-and-donations-did-the-volunteer-group-handling-the-october-7-dead-exploit-its-role/0000018d-5a73-d997-adff-df7bdb670000

You'll specifically find that they "spread news of atrocities that never happened".

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 2 points 9 months ago

Jesus fucking Christ.

[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 4 points 9 months ago

The Israeli government definitely exaggerated aspects of the 7th October attacks. Their goal was to totally dehumanize Palestinians. They don't even use that word any more on CNN, it's only Hamas now. So this isn't surprising. Of course nobody should believe Israel without evidence and investigation, they lied so many times.

Overall Israel has gotten more than a fair revenge for the atrocities. It says an eye for an eye, but they gotten 30 eyes for each 1, plus an extra 1500 children legs as a bargain. They more than "used up" that atrocity as a justification for anything.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=israeli+lies+about+7th+october