this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2022
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What is the point of these forums if you're banned for using it?

From the modlog: admin Banned @Julianus reason: 3 week timeout for more constant bickering expires: in 21d

There are admins with clear political bias and they are using their powers to suppress opinions they don't like. This isn't a ban for violating rules... but simply replying to their posts. What gives?

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[–] comfy@lemmy.ml 28 points 2 years ago

What is the point of these forums if you’re banned for using it?

Because it's made for the people who don't get banned.

If you get banned, it's usually a pretty big hint that this community isn't for you, and to evade is only wasting your own time in the end.

There are admins with clear political bias and they are using their powers to suppress opinions they don’t like.

lemmy.ml openly, explicitly has a political bias. This isn't a free-speech extremist place, and people here enjoy that fact. We don't want to see the same tired derails every day, we would go somewhere else for that.

[–] mekhos@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

21 days for "constant bickering" is a bit vague (and something a large number of us are guilty of)

More interesting than that though is your instance mandacaru.caatinga.digital which I have never seen before, and the sudden appearance of right-wing trolls from that same instance. If we look at the timing...@Nemo accout 2 hrs old currently (same time @Julianus account was banned) and troll accounts x7 created since then too.

Maybe the banning served it's purpose perfectly?

[–] drone621@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago

I'm a little curious what this user was banned for as well. I don't have any vested interest, but I scrolled through Julianus' comments and didn't see anything approaching bad taste. Maybe I missed it, or it was scrubbed.

[–] Nemo@mandacaru.caatinga.digital 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I (Julianus) simply picked a server from lemmy.ml's own list when I tried to log in and saw I was banned. I don't know anything about those other accounts. In fact, they were banned before I could even read whatever they wrote.

[–] mekhos@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Well you didn't miss much, they just flail around saying some racist stuff and try to get some air-time for their scat fetishes - not kink shaming or anything, but I wish they felt more comfortable sharing that sort of porn within their own circles.

[–] MadScientist@sopuli.xyz 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

which community and which instance are you talking about? lemmy.ml has a very clear left-leaning bias that they like to enforce pretty often with instance and user bans, but not post bans as far as i'm aware, so avoid them as your home instance. i see you're on a different instance already, though, so you should specify what you're talking about.

i guess the fact that you have to specify illustrates the beauty of federation!

[–] Nemo@mandacaru.caatinga.digital 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

https://lemmy.ml/c/worldnews

The modlog doesn't specify who took the action. That seems like something that should be logged...

[–] erpicht@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It was previously shown but is not any longer. The rationale given for the change was along the lines of: "to prevent targeted attacks on mods for mod decisions."

[–] Tryp@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 years ago

Which is fair because the mod team should be operating as a whole unit in the end anyways.

[–] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

On Lemmy.ml specifically, even though it is stated as a general leftist instance (so yes, we do have a political bias), we have generally tolerated most political views with the major exception of the far right.

If you look closer into it, at the histories of those banned for example, bans given in that people think is because of their political views, you'll find it's most often their behaviour: repeatedly debating in bad faith, and more importantly, harassing, or using attacks or insults against other users, which is covered under rules 1 and 2. Usually it takes multiple offences for a ban, unless the first offense was particularly egregious.

When banning someone other than an obvious troll or spammer from the start, we generally don't remove their post history specifically so it can be referenced later. So I encourage you to have a look.

[–] j_ming@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

leftist but also extremely eurocentric, so don't threaten that aspect of their identity

[–] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Are you saying Lemmy.ml is Eurocentric?

[–] j_ming@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

all activitypub networks sadly, but yes lemmy very much so

[–] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

In what way is lemmy.ml specifically, eurocentrist? Many users here are very critical of Europe, while not buying into the propaganda about places like China, Cuba, etc.

[–] j_ming@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

hundreds of links of Ukraine & Russia, brief mentions for other conflicts outside of europe. E.g. nothing about the recent Sri Lanka state of emergency. It's not about the sides being taken, it's about the stories being told.

[–] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

That I agree with, and it is something that the community here should do better, me included.

[–] j_ming@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago

btw i was a banned account for being 'racist' against europeans xD just came back to share IPCC news, feel free to ban me again

[–] Faresh@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The admins are allowed to moderate however they like with the rules they see appropriate. If you disagree with their decisions, you shouldn't expect to be welcomed on lemmy.ml and should instead look for another lemmy instance that better aligns with your ideas.

[–] Nemo@mandacaru.caatinga.digital 9 points 2 years ago (3 children)

That seems to defeat the purpose. I came here for civil discussion of differing opinions. If I wanted an echo chamber, I'd go back to reddit.

[–] Faresh@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There are other instances that may be more tolerant of other views if you consider that this instance is not tolerant enough. It should be noted that lemmy.ml is described in the sidebar as "a community of leftist privacy and FOSS enthusiasts", so I think it should have been pretty clear that there was going to be a bias.

[–] Nemo@mandacaru.caatinga.digital 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Bias of opinions, ok. But bias extending to censoring other opinions isn't cool. If a mod doesn't like my opinions, he's free to block me from his view, just like anyone else. But banning me from participating for speaking my mind within the rules of community isn't leftist, it's fascist.

I'm just warning you guys. You're making neat little tech demo that's heading right to a dead end, if you allow banning people for speaking withing the posted rules.

[–] MadScientist@sopuli.xyz 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

you can't really disallow that though, instances should be free to moderate however they wish. there will always be moderation like this in some instances, so just avoid those instances. the only thing that bothers me is lemmy.ml bears the name of the platform, yet says it's not a default instance, which is misleading but oh well, not a big deal.

[–] Faresh@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago

the only thing that bothers me is lemmy.ml bears the name of the platform

I mean, so does lemmy.pt and lemmy.cat, but you are right, people see it as the first instance recommended on join-lemmy with the most users and that is has lemmy as its name and think it's in some way the official instance.

[–] Whom@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago

What makes the "rules of the community" relevant here? Would you have no problem if the rules specifically disallowed your opinions?

Rules are guidelines and should always be loose, left up to human judgement and enforcement. If everything must be outlined with a specific rule, then you're just inviting constant rules lawyering for the rest of time instead of effectively taking care of people who make your community worse.

I suggest reading On a technicality.

[–] Whom@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago

I find that conversation flourishes when you limit it to a certain degree. In spaces which are completely open and have a massive range of opinion, what you'll find is mostly yelling at each other over broad talking points that everyone is already familiar with. After a while, nothing of interest comes out of the far left clashing with the far right all the time. But when you limit it, time can be spent doing other things than yelling at the dickhead on the other side who you have little to no overlap with and see as a dire enemy. You can talk about nuances in principles, differences in organizing, etc. It makes for richer, more interesting conversation.

[–] ora@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago

On a hunch... Reddit is far more tolerant of right leaning views than this instance of Lemmy. If I recall correctly, the creators have explicitly said they'd rather have strict moderation than a wide userbase. It's supposed to be part of the appeal.

[–] Ninmi@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 years ago

I have to say "bickering" is a dubious reason for a ban when there are people in here that respond to anything against their views with heavy sardonicism, degrading the quality of conversation immediately. Yet nothing is done to it.

[–] arthur@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago

What makes you think that using Lemmy is only about unconditional free speech? That is a weird assumption to make.

[–] m532@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

If you want frozen peaches, go to reddit, they have glowie admins, glowies like having lotsa bootlickers.