this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
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Electric Vehicles

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Electric Vehicles are a key part of our tomorrow and how we get there. If we can get all the fossil fuel vehicles off our roads, out of our seas and out of our skies, we'll have a much better environment. This community is where we discuss the various different vehicles and news stories regarding electric transportation.

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'Why Can't I Have This?' America's TikTok Refugees Discover China's EVs (insideevs.com)
submitted 6 days ago by schizoidman@lemm.ee to c/electricvehicles
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[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 26 points 6 days ago (4 children)

What a crock of shit. They're $15k because the government is paying for the rest of the car, they control the lithium, they don't give a shit about environmental regulations, and they use slave labor to produce these materials and cars. The only way any other manufacturer in the world can compete with this is if they also do all those things too. If they choose not to commit such atrocities, they'll go out of business, leaving us completely reliant on Chinese auto manufacturers for all our needs with millions of Americans out of work. This isn't a "US car" thing. No other country is producing cars in such a manor. US manufacturers only make up 30% of the market here.

This is just a bunch of vapid influences being manipulated and then spreading it to all their followers like a virus. They won't see anything past the fake cheap price and demand the Walmartification of ever more US manufacturing jobs.

[–] ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Say what you want, but it's undeniable that electric cars are being pushed and marketed in a certain way. Just look at Car and Driver's Future Electric Vehicles: The EVs You'll Soon Be Able to Buy and notice how many of the cars are SUVs, pickup trucks, or cost over $50,000. Or look at Edmund's Best Electric Cars of 2025 and 2026 and see how many of their categories are "luxury" or "super luxury."

There just aren't a lot of smaller budget options being made, for whatever reason.

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 0 points 5 days ago (2 children)

It's because companies typically create high dollar/high trim items first in order to use that money to develop these new products. China is paying all these development costs for Chinese manufacturers.

We could do that here if you don't mind a tax increase and cuts to government services so that more of your tax dollars can be funneled to Tesla, Ford, and GM and all the other more popular foreign manufacturers like Hyundai, Kia, Dodge, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, etc but I don't think that'll go over well once people actually see how the sausage is made.

Furthermore, this will likely lead to a lot of people hopping from car to car to car when they're selling so cheap new (especially for those who are buying these higher priced trims currently) which completely negates the environmental benefits that EVs offer. China is already seeing this with "car graveyards" full of nearly new EVs since there is no incentive for anyone to buy them over the newest model. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/

[–] JacobCoffinWrites 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Normally I accept that new tech is more expensive so they need to make it a luxury product at first to make a profit but car companies have been prioritizing 'luxury' pickups and SUVs for awhile now, even in ICE vehicles. A few years back now I'd have loved to buy a small, practical Ford Ranger or Toyota Tacoma or similar, but they're only making big trucks with all kinds of cost-markup-worthy luxury features. (So I bought a sedan). The focus on higher returns per individual sale seems to be the overall trajectory and why wouldn't it? The line must always go up.

I don't doubt that the established car companies can turn an ever-growing profit (at least for awhile) by cutting overhead and fine-tuning existing products, but I'm frankly skeptical that they have the nerve or ability to really invest in developing an entire new type of vehicle. I just don't think they have the ability anymore, they've spent too much time specializing in short-term profits. It's much easier to complain and demand protectionism from competition.

I don't disagree that the chinese companies have a lot of advantages, many of which are unfair. But I also don't have any real sympathy for our Too Big To Fail(tm) car companies, who have received a frankly absurd amount of help themselves with far less benefit to show for it. And even when they get that protection I find I'm skeptical that they'll use that cover to actually work to improve their electric vehicles to something comparable to the vehicle fleet that's being locked out of the market.

[–] faythofdragons 2 points 4 days ago

So, part of this is legislative. Write your Rep about the Chicken Tax.

[–] ieatpwns@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

If only there a way to tax billionaires

E:I’d take higher taxes if they paid their fair share

[–] PuddleOfKittens@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 days ago

They’re $15k because the government is paying for the rest of the car, they control the lithium, they don’t give a shit about environmental regulations, and they use slave labor to produce these materials and cars.

Hey, maybe it's because:

  1. They put heavy emphasis on EVs since 2009
  2. They don't kowtow to ICE car companies; ICE cars have a cap system that makes them expensive, every ICE car has one day of the week they aren't allowed on the road (determined by number plate)
  3. Their car companies aren't all pre-invested into massive ICE car factories
  4. The govt has very consistently supported EVs - western countries tend to flip-flop, e.g. when a conservative govt is elected
  5. They've more extensively vertically integrated their EV manufacturing (which to be fair, is an extension of point 3)

The industry experts have done teardowns of chinese EVs, and concluded shortcutting and labor abuse alone can't explain the low pricepoint. As shitty as the CCP is, if we don't recognize that China is ahead on EVs then they'll eat our lunch. EU/US tariffs on Chinese EVs won't stop them, because they're selling to the entire world, not just the EU/US. It'll be Harley Davidson all over again (who received protectionist tariffs against japanese motorcycles until Harley Davidson could "catch up" on affordability - and the rest is history).

Even if Chinese labor standards were the problem (and people don't mention that US/EU cars have plenty of Chinese components, made by Chinese workers with Chinese wages - Ford, Tesla etc have ), the result of the tariffs is that they're setting up factories in Mexico (just like Ford/etc) where they'll be bound by the same labor standards as everyone else. And they're still undercutting everyone.

[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Good let them pay the extra money for the car and let me save $20K. I can do a lot with 20k. Fuck the American car companies that wish to rape us.

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Fuck the American car companies that wish to rape us.

Obviously a bad faith argument. Most cars being sold in the US aren't coming from American car companies.

[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Number one selling manufacture in America is GM and third selling manufacturer is Ford. My argument is more than in good faith.

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

My argument is more than in good faith.

Then why did you omit the percentages when pointing this out?

GM - 16.9%

Ford - 13%

I'll even throw in Tesla - 3.3%

Total US marketshare - 33.2%

Total Foreign marketshare - 66.8%

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

They're $15k because the government is paying for the rest of the car

The only way any other manufacturer in the world can compete with this is if they also do all those things too

How about just that one thing?

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 1 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Can you explain in detail how that's possible for them to accomplish?

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Tax billionaires.

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social -4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I think you forgot the "details" part. Fortunes of people like Musk and Bezos exist in their stake of the companies they own not in traditional taxable wages that the rest of us earn. How do you tax that and who's going to implement it? Democrats and Republicans both kowtow to these people.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Ohhhh, so you're saying the USA can't do what China did because their politicians are all corrupt and put billionaires above the continued existence of the human species.

Thanks!

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social -2 points 5 days ago

No, I said nothing of the sort. I'm not sure why you're acting so negatively after simply being asked to explain an idea that you proposed all on your own.

Now I'm also curious how cheap, disposable vehicles built on the other side of the planet are our only hope for the "continued existence of the human species." Can you explain that too?

[–] PuddleOfKittens@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 days ago

Depending on your definition of "possible":

  1. Unban kei cars. Cars are cheaper if there's less car.
  2. Build more public transport (particularly trains, electric of course) so more people don't need cars, then tax ICE cars heavily
  3. Make all greenfield street grids use narrow streets (that means a max width of 6m(20ft) wall-to-wall, for 80% of streets) and over time convert existing grids likewise, which (strongly increases pedestrianism and) encourages any urban car drivers to drive kei cars.
  4. If most drivers of big cars are rural, then let the big ag subsidies cover it. Although honestly, if urban drivers stop driving cars (and ~80-90% of people are urban (that includes suburban)), then we're 80-90% of the way there anyway, and the last 10% doesn't matter.

Point 2 and 3 would require major political buy-in (and they're also sort of the same step anyway), which strains the definition of possible. But it's quite financially feasible.

[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 27 points 6 days ago (1 children)

This is a very good question. Western companies are refusing to make the cars we want so china should be able to provide what we want just like Japan did in the past.

[–] insomniac_lemon@lemmy.cafe 17 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

just like Japan did in the past

And Japan's past for the present.

In recent years, the AAMVA (an NGO) has been using their influence to push through sweeping changes to ban older imported cars, including Kei-class vehicles. In some states (Texas, Colorado, Michigan), those changes have been challenged in at least some part thanks to enthusiasts.

EDIT: Also most of these are standard ICE, but the smaller size/weight/cost makes them ideal for EV conversions. With-or-without the transmission. Especially if you get a deal because there is an issue with ICE-related parts or someone else needed the engine etc.