this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2024
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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards

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This is a community in the spirit of "Am I The Asshole" where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.

Sometimes one just wants to be able to challenge the arguments some mod made and this could be the place for that.

Rules

Expect to receive feedback about your posts, they might even be negative.

Make sure you follow this instance's code of conduct. In other words we won't allow bellyaching about being sanctioned for hate speech or bigotry.


Some acronyms you might see.


Relevant comms

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So I try to make heads or tails of this situation. I got randomly banned from a community where I posted a youtube video showing something from a Convention. Then I wanted to post a question today but realised that I couldn't since I was banned. That community is sadly the biggest of all Star Citizen communities (the next one would be from lemmy.world)

I took a look at the Mod log and see the following line in it:

So no clean up of violating comments or posts, just a strict out ban.

The community has a pretty standard ruleset:

further, the moderator @Rumblestiltskin@lemmy.ml hasn't posted anything since a year, so what gives here, or was it some other mod that was able to declare the ban?

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[–] BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 17 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

Fuck Lemmy.ml they are all tankies and pro-fascism.

If you are a mod from lemmy.ml reading this, go fuck yourself ban me.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 6 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

If you are a mod from lemmy.ml reading this, go fuck yourself ban me.

You know, at those times I'm really glad that I've stopped moderating comms there. I closed one down, migrated another, but nobody can blame me for condoning this shit.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 6 points 4 hours ago

Thank you for your service. You are part of the solution here, we all can see it:-).

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 11 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Hey folks, I just had an amazing idea: a drinking game. Drink a sip when someone gets banned from lemmy.ml, under rule #1, for criticising either Russia or China. Two sips if there's no reasonable way to interpret it as criticism against the populations, only against the State or corporations.

...nah, bad idea. You'll ruin your livers.

Serious now. After checking the modlog, it's clearly a PTB (power-tripping bastards) case. The nearest of something bigoted that I could find in the modlog was

Conspiracy theorists, Populists and Putin Dick sucker will run with this for sure.

This is bad not because you're criticising Putin, or Trump, but because of the expression itself. Even then, it's more of a "Watch your language, you're being homophobic", not grounds for a month long ban. And let us not fool ourselves, this likely had zero impact on your ban.

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I was banned for saying Cuba was communist with no value judgment of either the nation or the political system. AFAIK they are the only truly communist nation remaining.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

I was banned for saying Cuba was communist with no value judgment of either the nation or the political system. AFAIK they are the only truly communist nation remaining.

Emphasis mine. That is not how it looks like in the original context:

[OP] If the US stayed out of other countries politics and there were no coups or installation of people favorable to the US what would the world look like?

[You, removed as "rule 1"] Those countries would have been taken over by communist regimes due to support from hostile nations... So like Cuba but all over the place.

You're clearly casting a value judgment over the Cuban political system, and defending US intervention in other countries.

With that out of the way, it's yet another case of rule #1 (no bigotry) being used to prevent people from criticising the admins' views, because they can't be arsed to list in the rules "5. Don't criticise our political views here."


Side note. I do not want to engage on the discussion of capitalism/socialism/communism here, as it falls outside the scope of this community. However:

  • Communists distinguish between "socialism" and "communism", as two sequential economic systems. Cuba's regime is socialist, not communist. Since this conflation shows that you aren't communist, it further reinforces reading your comment as casting a negative judgement over the Cuban regime.
  • What you're calling "nation" there is "country". For Cuba it doesn't make much of a difference, but for other countries it does.
[–] DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz 3 points 1 hour ago

Side note. I do not want to engage on the discussion of capitalism/socialism/communism here, as it falls outside the scope of this community. However:

  • im gonna
  • you cant stop me i already did it
[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 3 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

Well, there was something about encouraging assassination, though it was two months ago. Possibly the admins were noticing a pattern of behavior and just decided to hell with it.

So imho the chief issues here are perhaps more related to transparency, explaining what happened - OP had no idea even? - and why (as in precisely which rule), rather than trying to guess if it was justified or not, especially since we can no longer see all the linked stuff (unless someone has admin privileges and wants to look).

Edit: also, I just had... significantly more than a sip, of 70 proof whiskey, so apparently I knew that you were going to say this? Yeah... we'll go with that:-).

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 4 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I saw that entry. It was in lemmy.world, not .ml, and given the target of the joke I don't think that the .ml team would care about it.

So imho the chief issues here are perhaps more related to transparency [...]

Yup, pretty much. They never communicate properly who is removing the content / banning the user, and why. And they clearly don't want to. (Perhaps the .ml admins are waiting for the devs to implement transparency features into Lemmy /s)

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 4 points 3 hours ago

Good point.

Before I saw the /s my brain was cracking up ... uh, the .ml admins are the devs tho?!?!?!

img

And they have actively taken steps to prevent people from finding how who did what action. Only ~~authority figures~~ admins can see some of that now, while the rest of us just see "mod". In fairness, it does protect a mod team against aboose.

img2

Though it shifts the balance of power away from the worker/peasant/user-class and upwards to the we-are-all-equal-but-some-of-us-are-more-equal-than-others-who-are-supposedly-also-equal class. You know, the principles of "communism", where famously we are all equal except the handful of rulerz above us all?

img3

But as I mentioned elsewhere, it's their software, and they can - and WILL btw - make it work however they want to. We are the ones who choose to use it... or not.

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

Well your first mistake was buying into Star Citizen's empty promises.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 39 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

This has nothing to do with the community. The modlog shows that you were banned site-wide from lemmy.ml, which is implemented by a ban from each individual community individually (so despite how this says it was done by a "mod", it was actually an admin):

Removed Comment So they are doing a China? by macniel@feddit.org reason: Rule 1

It is an unwritten rule that you are not allowed to criticize China there. Or Russia. Or anything else that they do not like.

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.org 14 points 6 hours ago (3 children)

Oh damn now that makes sense. This site wide ban really needs to be conveyed better so I didn't even thought of making that connection.

To bad that one of the biggest meme community is hosted on .ml

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 8 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

To bad that one of the biggest meme community is hosted on .ml

Give !lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world and !memes@sopuli.xyz a check, perhaps you'll like one (or both) of them.

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 19 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Everyone is better off not using .ml

[–] Speculater@lemmy.world 8 points 4 hours ago

Blocked them ages ago when they removed a silly meme that they thought might maybe be anti China, but was 100% unrelated.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 3 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

The only ways that I know of to user-block Lemmy.ml:

  1. non-Lemmy PieFed (you can block any custom instance you wish - it lacks some polish compared to Lemmy but it's really growing up strong and is even ahead in some ways, e.g. this one) or Sublinks, in the meantime Tesseract on dubvee.org that says it will switch to use the latter eventually. Edit: I forgot to mention Mbin, b/c I am not sure if it can or not. Someone said that originally Kbin could user-block whole instances, but there seem to be reports that Mbin cannot for whatever reason, and I have not made an account to check it out personally or a post to ask someone.

  2. lemmy.cafe that is very welcoming and has blocked all of the big 3, + threads, and interestingly, virtually nothing else. I think this should be among the new default recommendations really, the only downside seems to be that it has only a single admin so perhaps less stable than e.g. lemm.ee (though the latter allows lemmygrad.ml, hexbear.net, and lemmy.ml - which for some people is a good thing, but for people who want the opposite of that, without other additional restrictions, that's lemme.cafe). It is notably running 0.19.6-beta.9 though, so the admin seems super on the ball, and it has really nice welcoming messages too, guiding people to a variety of helpful resources. Edit: oh I forgot about your instance, quokk.au, also only a single user, though it doesn't block lemmygrad.ml for whatever reason, but yes that's another option.

  3. someone said that the Boost app allows user-blocking of instances. I cannot confirm personally nor know of others - Voyager (on Android) cannot, but what about e.g. Sync?

  4. Lemmy ostensibly has a "user block of instances", except it doesn't really at all - all it does is block communities, not users, and what little protection it did offer irt the latter has actually weakened over time (e.g. for those in Lemmy.World running 0.19.3, users from blocked instances cannot trigger a "notification", whereas for most people outside of that running 0.19.5 they can). At this point I don't expect anything that will allow blocking lemmy.ml users to ever be released on any instance running the Lemmy codebase - the only options seem to be move to an instance offering defederation, leave Lemmy entirely, or suck it up and swallow what you're given.

It makes sense that most instance admins do not want to defederate though, b/c some communities are still held hostage on the lemmy.ml instance - e.g. !firefox@lemmy.ml with 3.6K MAU (monthly active users) vs. the next largest one !firefox@lemmy.world with only 0.7K MAU, that's an enormous difference! Actually it would be best if communities, especially niche ones, were not held hostage by ANY kind of political maneuvering - except there is literally nothing these days that is not political, it would seem, including "facts" themselves.

But yeah, one reason to move communities off is that the mods themselves could accidentally get booted, or at the very least their users could at any point say something that sets off the ban hammer - and then never be allowed to post or comment in the community again? Unless it's a community called I_fucking_love_Russia_and_China_too, it's a risk that can seriously fragment the Fediverse, to tie that content to a certain brand of political thinking.

Especially one that is nowhere written down, and could change at any given moment, also without any prior notification.

img

But so long as you continue to use the Lemmy software, what right does anyone have to complain about how the devs wish to implement their own code, which they wrote for themselves, for their own desires and ends?

If we want better, we have to make things that are better, on our own.

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

What's the Big 3? The instance I'm on is de-feded with ML, Hex, and Threads. Honestly my experience here has been much better than on any of the other bigger sites for that reason.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 1 points 3 hours ago

I don't doubt it. Threads I thought was more of a preemptive measure though, since iirc Meta wasn't ready to actually start sending any of its data towards the Fediverse. The "third" member of the big 3 then is lemmygrad.ml. Though most instances defederate from it, even if they don't defederate from hexbear.net or lemmy.ml, so possibly even without having defederated from it explicitly you aren't really seeing much content coming your way from it?

Oh no, your defederation is somehow wonky. I don't see lemmygrad.ml communities, not that I wanted to you understand but it's not in your defed list so they should be there, but I do see communities from both lemmy.ml and hexbear.net. Maybe simply adding the instance names is not enough and you need to "reinitialize" the data or some such? Here's one: https://quokk.au/c/memes@lemmy.ml and here's another: https://quokk.au/c/memes@hexbear.net. But then again... all the posts are old, so maybe that's how it is supposed to look? I dunno, so my message is probably confusing, but I thought I would offer it anyway just in case you didn't know, and if that helps you figure anything out!:-)

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 0 points 3 hours ago

No, just forget them.