this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
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Anarchism

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I had a discussion with @Cowbee@lemmy.ml recently where they insisted that Anarchists on Hexbear accept Lenin's analysis of Imperialism and therefore all support "Actual Existing Socialist" states such as Cuba, USSR and I guess North Korea as well.

In fact, they argued it's the reason most anarchists of Hexbear don't like to discuss anarchism away from hexbear, explicitly because outside anarchists do not support "AES".

So I'm curious to see what your thoughts are on this. If you're an anarchist who supports "AES" how do you square this support with the conflict these states have with anarchist theory on hierarchy?

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[–] blindbunny@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 minutes ago

I feel as though most marxist leninists types of people want to divide people on other countries issues while not fixing issues where they live. Most anarchists I know are showing up to mutual aid, cussing out city council members for empowering cops and are in general more helpful.

The last writings of Lenin was 1923 a hundred years have since passed. Most marxists leninists I know haven't read Murray Bookchin. Or don't like to equate an Andrewism video to the the writings of Marx or Lenin. It's like they think time stood still.

This also seems to be the case with most Marxists Leninists perspective on forgien policy as well. To think of North Korean as anything other then a monarchy doesn't feel inline with either of Marx or Lenin's writings. The USSR was what happens when a country with barely enough capitol becomes communist country in a short amount of time and unfortunately sometimes even forced.

Which brings me to Cuba. Cuba is a socialist country that has been constantly harassed, escalated, and intervened with. Cuda would be a successful socialist country if other countries wouldn't treat them as a stage to dispute their differences and not recognizing things like the bay of pigs and the Cuban missile crisis in their history is very short sighted. Just as not recognizing current day atrocious that still take place there to this day.

As an anarchist I observe that Obama said he wanted to close Guantánamo but didn't. And come to the conclusion that the military industrial complex wouldn't let that happen. Free the people in Guantánamo detention camp. Return Guantánamo bay to the people of Cuba. Dissolve the CIA hold them accountable. End the Patriot act. Fuck the police. Abolish the prison industrial complex. Abolish the military industrial complex.

[–] cacheson@piefed.social 8 points 2 hours ago

Hexbear anarchists are sus, all two of them. I won't say they're categorically not anarchists, but I'm going to be automatically suspicious of any anarchist that loves hanging out with Leninists.

> "Actually existing socialism"

> look inside

> capitalism, but the state is the capitalist

I personally despise all nation states

[–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

No. Broadly the way I've squared it is that I support specific policies and adopting of said policies, where even if they are not anarchist in principle properly benefit the working class or limit oppression in some capacity, if a state implements these I will support that decision, but not the existence of that state or more generally a state at all.

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 18 points 10 hours ago

Oh.

Not Advanced Encryption Standard. Right.

No, I don't support EAS in that context, because none of the states that they're citing are anything other than deeply, profoundly authoritarian.

[–] Ithral@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

AES is a solid symmetric encryption standard. I support the use of it. However I think you might be referring to something else?

[–] Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 10 hours ago

It's also a power company

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 hours ago

"Actually Existing Socialism"

[–] amelore 14 points 10 hours ago

If there's anarchists on Hexbear and none of them speak against AES, it's because they know not to mention it.

I guess I could see some anarchists support vague nonsense that sounds similar to an ML. Like having even less sympathy for an openly capitalist regime than ones that are or purport to be socialist. But they're obviously not anarchists if they genuinely support some states.

[–] Prunebutt 23 points 12 hours ago

From what I've gathered, Hexbear is just incredibly tankie driven. It wouldn't surprise me if there are self-proclaimed "anarchists" on there that are just tankies painted black, du to social pressure.

As many have pointed out: anarchists usually don't support "AES". The spectrum I've seen ranges from "1917 was actually a bourgeois revolution" to "they tried but got corrupted in some way".

[–] Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

There's a ton of ways to be an anarchist and the diversity of ideas is something generally celebrated, but the one minimum requirement is that you aren't supportive of states (and hierarchy of course, but I'm just talking about the literal meaning of anarchy here), especially authoritarian states...

[–] simplymath@lemmy.world 24 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

What? Anarchism is generally anti-statist and socialists sure love to shoot anarchists. By the logic of AES, Anarchists should support Assad and not the YPG since one is "anti-imperialist" and the other exists due to US military support.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Hey I'm as confused as you are. Which is why I opened this thread.

[–] simplymath@lemmy.world 8 points 12 hours ago

definitely sounds like tankie shit. glad we're on the same page.

[–] poVoq 16 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

That makes about as much sense as "anarcho-capitalism". Of course it's no fun to have your mental gymnastics questioned outside of Hexbear 😅

But ok, for the sake of argument, maybe a dysfunctional late-stage AES is a more suitable ground for building something in the shell of the old. At least people in these states know from first hand experience just how bad state control can get.

Edit: curious that you left out China in your list of AES.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I'm actually not up to date on what the ML analysis on China is lately. Do they still consider it "AES" or is it seen more capitalist nowadays? I can't always keep up with the mental gymnastics on display :D

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 9 points 10 hours ago

Hexbear doesn't care about the answer to that question. They support modern-day Russia which doesn't have any pretense of socialism. Their stance is first and foremost anti-American. Anything else is window dressing.

[–] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 5 points 13 hours ago