They're usually shredded alive almost immediately because they're seen as "waste" since they don't lay eggs
For some more context:
this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2024
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Did you consider my hypothetical? How does your understanding of causation make sense of that?
edit: sorry, I didn't see your other reply.
do you have a plan to accomplish your hypothetical scenario? because, if not, it is moot.
That's not how hypotheticals work. It's just meant to expose the flaw in your logic. In this case you're arguing that demand for a product is not related to supply. That when dvds came out and nobody wanted a vhs player anymore everyone kept making vhs players anyway because 'that's not causal'.
i never said that.
You said it wasn't causal. I'm not sure how else to interpret that.
i also explained that free agent's actions can only be said to be caused by their own will. that means that "demand" can never cause "supply" (nor, truly, the other way around), since both those terms actually reflect the willful actions of free agents.
Ok, I get you now. That's just obtuse pedantry. If the demand for animal products goes down, so will supply. This gives an individual the power to lower supply, to choose not to has the same overall effect as killing a few animals. The distinction doesn't matter. Your actions have consequences whether you like it or not. Animal ag cannot survive without money and whenever you buy animal products you are giving it to them.
no, it doesn't.
yes, it does.
I can make compelling arguments, too, see.
and you can see that we have each presented and equal amount of proof.
That's kind of the point I was making? Sorry for whooshing you.
you're the one proposing a causal mechanism. it is on you to provide evidence. simply disbelieving (or suspending judgement) is the only rational course until evidence is provided.
this is a thought-terminating cliche.
Obtuse pedantry is definitely thought terminating. When you just word spaghetti your way out of any argument or dismiss it uncritically instead of actually engaging with it.
my comments are concise, and i don't require "word spaghetti" to explain flaws in your arguments.
animal ag predates money.
the modern animal ag industry then, pedant.
how can we test your hypothesis?
I mean it's been tested. When there was no money in VHS they stopped making them. How is this not making sense to you?
you can still buy them new.
pedaaaaannnnttttt
what was the control?
post hoc, ergo propter hoc
I don't speak latin, sorry
it's a fallacious form of reasoning where claiming that the correlation of events implies causation. "it happened after, therefore it was caused by" as in.... veganism increased with policing and surveillance.
Do you really need this one spelt out? Sales declined and then production followed. The goal of the business was to make money so when their product stopped making money they stopped producing it.
What would you do in the same situation? The logic seems incredibly cut and dry and you keep insisting I need to give you proof, but I'd like to see evidence of the opposite happening to be honest.
but they could have changed their values. they could have decided that the goal was not to make money, but to cover the earth, nay, the solar system with vcrs. but they didnt. they chose other values, and tried to act in a way that would uphold those values. they choose the values. they choose the action. i have no resposibility for others choices in this regard.
Look, I enjoy uncertainty, too. I'm a silly little teacup orbiting Jupiter agnostic joker. But there are times when you can predict with a fair degree of certainty what's going to happen. If you were being completely honest with yourself you would admit that enough people going vegan would probably have a noticeable effect on the animal agriculture industry. And yes, admittedly neither of us know if that's true or not. But either way I'm not going to give that industry my money because I'm pretty sure they're just going to use it to keep killing animals.
I'm not judging what you do, but be honest with yourself, the money you give them is probably going to go toward killing more animals. Maybe they'll change their mind and all decide to stop tomorrow, but until then I will keep trying to disincentivise them the way I'm most certain will work.
And if you do actually care about the treatment of animals please reconsider whether or not you have an impact.
certainly, but perhaps not the effect you are expecting. your assertion that you know what their reaction would be, and that it would be to accept making less money, is just not likely true.
Of course they won't accept making less money, the answer isn't apathy, though.
gladly. despite the high value of faberge eggs, no more are produced. despite the high value of epipens, enough have not been produced to make them affordable to all who might want one. of course, this doesn't actually quantify demand, and i'm still not sure how that can be done.
edit:
despite no demand for iphones in 2004, they were subsequently produced.
The edit one is what I was looking for and fair play. You got me with that one.