NATO, specially the US, has meticulously blocked off all options other than an invasion by being an anti-Russia org and repeatedly not letting Russia join NATO because of that, backing the 2014 fascist coup in Ukraine to sideline the Minsk agreements against the interests and wishes of Eastern Ukrainians

and the subsequent killings of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine, like Donbas, DPR, and LPR, by the coup gov for resisting.

They are also the ones blocking negotiations with Russia. So yes, this is NATO using Ukraine for a proxy war.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

These excuses for Russian aggression and how they just had to attack because NATO is a meanie organization and there was an unfriendly government in Ukraine and you just can't have that and they literally made us attack them are just as ridiculous to me as US excuses about freedom, democracy and whatnot that they use to invade countries.

Fuck Russia and their attack on Ukraine, they are the ones who caused the death of those Ukrainians. They are literally the ones killing them.

They are also the ones blocking negotiations with Russia

Ukraine could negotiate if it wanted to, but they don't want to give in to Russia for obvious reasons, either just losing parts of their land to Russian land grab or worse, being subjugated by them. Russia on the other hand could stop this just by leaving. That'd be the end of it. And they wouldn't have to give up their lands or anything. Could just go home.

So yes, this is NATO using Ukraine for a proxy war.

Russia literally invaded them but it's NATO that's bad for supporting their defense. The logic astounds me.

[–] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

What do you think your country should do if the world's most war-mongering and most powerful superpower is making a military alliance specifically against your country, and is coup'ing neighboring ones if their population doesn't want to do so?

What if your country has tried repeatedly to join it, but has been refused every time? What if your country's socialist system which this military alliance was formed against in the first place has already been overthrown and taken over by capitalists, and they still don't stop? Seriously, what the fuck else is there to do?

Ukraine could negotiate if it wanted to

Tell that to the Eastern Ukrainians who this fascist government doesn't represent, and has been killing for resisting.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

What do you think your country should do if the world’s most war-mongering and most powerful superpower is making a military alliance explicitly against your country, and is coup’ing neighboring ones if their population doesn’t want to do so?

I certainly wouldn't be calling for an invasion of neighboring countries on the basis of not liking their government. Not justified for Russia, not justified for anyone imo. But hey, can't have governments who aren't aligned with us, gotta invade and even blame them for being invaded.

What if your country has tried repeatedly to join it, but has been refused every time? Seriously, what the fuck else is there to do?

Not start a war over not being allowed to join an international organization for one. "If you don't let us in on your military alliance I'll start attacking". What a mindset.

Tell that to the Eastern Ukrainians who this fascist government doesn’t represent, and has been killing for resisting.

They did negotiate with Russia, or their self-proclaimed states did. NATO didn't prevent that. Neither is it preventing Ukraine's government from doing it. No idea what you were on about there.

[–] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

You haven't answered what else you think they should, or even could, do.

International Organization

NATO is an organization of primarily imperial core countries, not really an international one.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

You haven’t answered what else you think they should, or even could, do.

I think they should stop attacking other countries. It's really simple as that. It would be healthy to find some other ways to deal with unfriendly governments other than attacking them. Or just learn to accept that not everyone is aligned with you, as most do in similar situation. Though the idea that attacking and invading them is the only imaginable way is very on brand.

NATO is an organization of primarily imperial core countries, not really an international one.

International just means "existing, occurring, or carried on between nations." There's two or more different nations, it's inter national.