That seems like a silly worry to me. I would be more concerned about what my own country or a corporation or the USA could do to me than China. Think about it. The USA could charge me with something like copyright violation and boom I get arrested just like that. China accuses me of a crime and the government won't do shit.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I'm sure they won't do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don't have to?

Corporations spy on us too, and this is motivated by profit. The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?

You are doing that now though.

The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.

I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.

OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago (24 children)

You are doing that now though.

I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.

I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.

Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.

OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.

Why? Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP? If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.

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[–] FMT99@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea. You should absolutely be vigilant against your own government as well. But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That's not a silly worry, it's a daily occurrence.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea

Did you mean say "foreign entity" or "China". Because we already give that information to a foreign entity, multiple foreign agencies in fact.

But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.

It's a silly worry for me because I am not a chinese dissident living abroad.

[–] FMT99@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Well that's up to you. I'm no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you'll understand if I take it more personally. China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally.

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.

I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don't think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.

[–] FMT99@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

I haven't heard of people being abducted from Taiwan, but friends were detained while transferring flights in Hong Kong over some China-critical social media posts.

... have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have

Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I've never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn't, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.

Look if you say "I'm not involved, it's not my problem" that's fair enough. But to say there's no difference between the US (which I fully acknowledge does lots of bad things) and China is missing the plot a bit.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago

Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I’ve never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn’t, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.

This is exactly the point. Both are bad, but one plays by no rules whatsoever, while the other at least pays lip service to them.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.

I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don't think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.

You would be wrong about most of this. The Chinese government has one of the most sophisticated spying networks in the world. Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.

I feel like you haven't been to the US. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn't out there wiretapping the entire world. Real life isn't like the CIA movies, mate.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.

Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so....

You would be wrong about most of this.

I don't think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.

Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.

All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.

I feel like you haven’t been to the US.

I have actually but I don't see why that's relevant. You really think people gain knowledge once they step off the airplane into the USA?

. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn’t out there wiretapping the entire world.

It sounds like you are not very aware of what's been happening.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so....

So you only care about yourself?

I don't think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.

Yes, you are. Both of those countries have large intelligence programs, yes. So does the CCP. And, as I mentioned elsewhere, they don't have to even pretend to follow the law. China is a massive surveillance state.

But sure mate, China fine, US big bad scary. Got it.

All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.

The CCP has no laws it needs to follow. The US government does. It needs reasons to get information on you, and the information it can get is limited. And no, the NSA, doesn't. Some systems allows access, but not "all routers etc". That's conspiracy theory territory I'm afraid.

It sounds like you are not very aware of what's been happening.

I am, I'm just not a paranoid conspiracy nut.

[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So you only care about yourself?

I care mostly about myself. Just like you care mostly about yourself. You certainly don't use the same criteria against any other country.

Yes, you are. Both of those countries have large intelligence programs, yes. So does the CCP. And, as I mentioned elsewhere, they don’t have to even pretend to follow the law. China is a massive surveillance state.

USA is much worse, much more pervasive, much more massive.

But sure mate, China fine, US big bad scary. Got it.

China bad, USA is worse.

The CCP has no laws it needs to follow.

Same goes for the USA.

It needs reasons to get information on you, and the information it can get is limited.

Nope. It gathers mass information all the time. This conversation is being recorded by the USA because all traffic on the internet is being recorded by them. They didn't need to ask anybody.

I am, I’m just not a paranoid conspiracy nut.

You are more paranoid than me but also racist from the looks of it.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I care mostly about myself. Just like you care mostly about yourself. You certainly don’t use the same criteria against any other country.

I have empathy for many people. I care about all lives. I never once said I hold this view exclusively about China. We were talking about Chinese cars, so I said I don't trust them.

USA is much worse, much more pervasive, much more massive.

Disagree. You should spend time in Asia and talk to the people there, follow the news, etc. You might learn something.

China bad, USA is worse.

Ok, so how does that invalidate me not wanting a Chinese car or a Chinese cellphone exactly? Since that's how this started...

Same goes for the USA.

No, this is wrong. The government can do a lot, yes, but it is not a dictatorship.

Nope. It gathers mass information all the time. This conversation is being recorded by the USA because all traffic on the internet is being recorded by them. They didn’t need to ask anybody.

It really isn't, but whatever.

You are more paranoid than me but also racist from the looks of it.

How, exactly, am I racist?

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[–] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You probably trust your life to chinese made parts in your current car.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 2 points 8 months ago (12 children)

Absolutely, but those are parts which are subject to overseas QA, standards and testing. For example, I have a Toyota. Chinese made parts must meet their strict quality control, must adhere to safety standards, etc.

I know first hand that, in China, regulations and standards can be bypassed with the correct payments. I do not trust that they have not done so, especially when there are other, better, choices.

We are talking about a country that has things like Melamine laced baby formula quite frequently. How did these things pass regulators and testing? Bribary.

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