this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
892 points (97.4% liked)

World News

39004 readers
2706 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world

Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
quinten@lemmy.world
NewsAutoMod@lemmy.world
jordanlund@lemmy.world
Tenthrow@lemmy.world
little_cow@lemmy.world
lemmyAtom@lemmy.world
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
892
Russia has lost 87% of troops it had prior to start of Ukraine war, according to US intelligence assessment (www.cnn.com)
submitted 11 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
202 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Russia has lost a staggering 87 percent of the total number of active-duty ground troops it had prior to launching its invasion of Ukraine and two-thirds of its pre-invasion tanks, a source familiar with a declassified US intelligence assessment provided to Congress told CNN.

Still, despite heavy losses of men and equipment, Russian President Vladimir Putin is determined to push forward as the war approaches its two-year anniversary early next year and US officials are warning that Ukraine remains deeply vulnerable. A highly anticipated Ukrainian counteroffensive stagnated through the fall, and US officials believe that Kyiv is unlikely to make any major gains over the coming months.

The assessment, sent to Capitol Hill on Monday, comes as some Republicans have balked at the US providing additional funding for Ukraine and the Biden administration has launched a full-court press to try to get supplemental funding through Congress.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

There's no fallacy, since I'm not pretending that isn't the case. Saying it doesn't go to the American people isn't strictly true. It's an investment into the defense industry. That is wages and jobs. Those equal consumption further down the line. Could the resources be spent somewhere else? Sure. But I didn't argue against that. I specifically took issue with saying that the money doesn't go to the American people.

The people on the right, not the politicians but the actual people, hear how America is pretty much shipping cash to Ukraine (because the news they watch leave out the facts) which is where they get the idea of "Zelenskiy buying cocaine on their tab". We have to make clear when we discuss these things that America is investing this money in local production. The products of those jobs are what is shipped to Ukraine. The money stays in America, and Zelenskiy isn't buying a new yacht with them (which is one of the talking points I've heard from the right).

I do not disagree that there's a discussion to be had, but I think it's important to be clear about what the discussion actually is. I'm also in strong doubts about whether it needs to be a choice between weapons and other things. The United States can do both. The fact that both isn't done speaks to the idea that not investing in arms for Ukraine wouldn't mean that other investments were made instead.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

For clarity:

  • If the two only options were to spend the money in the US making weapons or spend it outside the US making weapons, then it's better for the US to spend it in the US making weapons as what's created using the resources is weapons either way and if spent in the US other benifits of spending that money (as you pointed out: "wages and jobs") are captured in the US.
  • However if the options being considered are spend the money making weapons or spend it making something else, economically it's probably better to spend it something else because it would still generate "wages and jobs" and in addition to that there could be other benefits from that something else (imagine for examples if it went into bridges and roads: unless they're "bridges to nowhere" those thinks tend to keep on delivering economic benefits long after the money was spent) which weapons do not bring.

That said, the World is as it is, Russia acts as it acts, so in overall other nations have to spend that money in weapons and military because of them anyway, and even in a pure, cold "financial analysis" (i.e. moral aside) the single most efficient way of achieving the desired result (stop Russia from fucking things up for everybody else) is by helping Ukraine militarily.

In fact, I think Europe (were I am) is still not doing enough in that front.

My point was entirelly on, in abstract, that using a country's money to make weapons is generally not a good investment from an economic point of view.