I use Signal with a few of my friends. It has enough features to replace Whatsapp, but most people just don't care about their privacy enough to change what's convenient and already works for them even if they have zero privacy.
this post was submitted on 23 Jul 2023
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If you are willing to use Signal, you already don't mind a tiny userbase, so why not use Session (or maybe Matrix) and enjoy privacy, security, AND anonymity?
Signal has always been clear that privacy!=anonymity and regards people who want both as both stupid and unusual. Its always been a weird dance to watch.
Because the ux for signal is superior and I don't care about anonymity when I'm communicating with friends and family.
The right tool for the right job, and signal is the right tool for general communication, but I wouldn't use it for my virtual pals.
Essentially, I see entirely different use cases for decentralized options like matrix, session, xmpp.
I haven’t done any Signal app recruiting in my circle of contacts (in fact, I don’t think I’ve talked to anyone about it) and I have 14 contacts that have it installed at the very least. I don’t think it would be a huge push to make Signal more prevalent.
The uphill battle is making a dent in iMessage adoption, which seems to be deeper and deeper entrenched every day.
Signal is by far much easier to get family/friends to use than Matrix or Session. Downloaded it to my parents' phones and told them this is how you contact me.
this is exactly what I did to my mother
(this sentence sounds so scary out of context)
They dropped the native sms integration. IMO, that was the best tool for adoption. Make it seamless for people to move over from their native SMS messenger and people will use it. Going full closed, only signal to signal, meant I needed to use multiple messaging apps for different people. And I had to remember who is on which. It's been a headache.
I needed to use multiple messaging apps for different people
Beeper is a lifesaver: https://www.beeper.com/
You can self-host if you prefer: https://github.com/beeper/self-host
Well this is interesting. I hadn't heard of Beeper before. Many years ago I used Trillion (I think it was) as a chat aggregator. It fell apart pretty quickly, but Beeper looks promising. I signed up for their wait-list. We'll see what happens.
Trillian. It's named after a character in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
What sorcery is this?
A bunch of Matrix bridges on one platform, with some extra funding. It looks cool, but isn't lifechanging. It is designed to (hopefully) make it easier to use, but if you don't care, you can set up the bridges yourself on your own matrix server.
I'm surprised it's possible to talk to most of those services without having access to trade secrets. I guess you can get that info from reverse engineering the clients, but I'd expect that approach to be very brittle and possibly subject to legal action.
Signed up for the waitlist. Thank you!
They dropped the native sms integration. IMO, that was the best tool for adoption.
Depends on the market. In Europe SMS has become a separate, mostly read-only medium. We use it as a sort of notification channel for doctor appointments, due bills, online tickets, payment confirmations etc. Mixing this channel into a general purpose messenger app would actually hurt its adoption IMO.
A friend used it. Once he didnt had data. He only got his sms notifications as soon he got data back. It was an interesting feature, but seems a bit bugged to me.
Because you want to use it to talk to your friends, who know who you are anyway? I don't get this need to wipe yourself completely from the face of the Earth.
IMO the issue with Signal's lack of anonymity isn't that your friends know who you are; it's that Signal itself can build a graph of everybody's contacts.
I mean, yes, I understand that Facebook, Google and a bunch of other companies can get the same info, but if I'm going to switch to something to be an improvement I would ideally want it to improve all the way instead of halfway.
The concern with Session is that theyre based in Australia, a country that is in the 5 eyes, and their government passed a bill forces companies to provide a backdoor when ordered to, the company cannot deny to create this, and they can't declose that they got ordered to ether. [A great video talking about said bill] While the Session devs say their services are resilient to these threats, [see their FAQ] it's best to remain cautious.
And session removed perfect forward secrecy from the signal protocol they forked.
Thanks, I've been confused about all the different messaging apps for a while now, and having a feature comparison matrix like that is helpful.
(I'd definitely be interested in other users' opinions about how accurate/reliable/unbiased the information presented is, though!)
This matrix doesn't conflict with anything I've independently read about any of the protocols listed.
It doesn't list briar, which deserves mention.
SimpleX is also a good alternative, though a bit immature still.
Because the UX is horrible and they (especially matrix) have a ton of privacy/security issues that Signal doesn't have
I just checked, there are 97 Signal contacts on my phone.
Edit: It's all persons I really know
I use Session because it doesn't require a phone number.
Session is pretty slow in my experience, since it — as I understand it — works in a similar way to Tor. Images and videos are especially bad
Matrix is hella buggy, Session part of the lokinet weird ancap crypto scheme, XMPP is god tier
Briar, now that's a thingy
Paywalled
I just read the whole thing and didn't hit one... Weird
They give free access to a limited number of articles and then put up a paywall.
12ft.io
Great article. Signal has achieved a lot but still faces huge challenges. This article puts that all in perspective nicely
I was sad when signal changed to not include basic sms to non signal users. I don't like having separate messengers for things like that. But it makes sense in the grand scheme. If I could get the few people I message the most to convert over I'd be happy.
But it makes sense in the grand scheme.
How? Signal doesn't have the leverage to get the bulk of users to stop using SMS. So all that move did was to force people to reinstall an SMS. Then, signal became yet another messaging app for like one contact to manage and forget about.
Matrix does what signal does, but it's distributed, unlike Signal. Plus you have protocol portability.
people on new phone are now auto enrolled to Google's RCS. This poses a few issues:
- if a user switches from RCS to SMS they're now using a less secure messaging mechanism.
- it's confusing (to some not all) to have a very insecure method of messaging in a secure messaging app.
- if a user switches from RCS to SMS and they don't know to unregister, they'll now be sent RCS messages that never arrive making Signal look like the cause of the problem.
- Google hasn't provided an Android API for RCS. the writing is on the wall, text messaging via alternative apps is no longer a long term option and a waste of developer resources when they could instead be improving what they do control, Signal.
- SMS on Signal was already unmaintained and not that great.
- SMS was a feature on a single platform, Android, and didn't even sync to the desktop app, confusing some (not all) users.
All that said, with limited resources and budget, they really should not be spending any dev points on 40 year old tech. does it suck for some? yes, absolutely. Is it the end of the world?
Lastly, while I love Matrix, its not ready for prime time. I was able to get my grandma to install Signal and join group chats with almost no help. I wouldn't fare as well with Matrix/Element.
Thank you for the reminder that I should donate to Signal for all the good things they have brought to the world.
I had a conversation with a cryptographer who worked for Wickr he says none of the DoD or other government agents he knew trusted Signal 🤔 - personally I use Signal with my mom or personal friends as like the bottom tier of security, because metadata is a real thing, they don't have to actually know what you're talking about. Just using a phone number itself tells you most everything feds need to know if they're really after you.
if you actually want privacy use XMPP
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