A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.
Remember the overriding ethos on Beehaw: Be(e) Nice. Each user you encounter here is a person, and should be treated with kindness (even if they’re wrong, or use a Linux distro you don’t like). Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
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This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
It's disappointing seeing people cave so quickly when under the slightest inconvenience. It doesn't matter for me, though - I'm not going back. If anything, this has helped me realize the unhealthy relationship I had with Reddit and was a good way to break that.
To new and better things.
this has helped me realize the unhealthy relationship I had with Reddit and was a good way to break that
Exactly, now that I have an unhealthy relationship with Lemmy I can't put effort into the one with Reddit.
Advertisers are starting to take notice, it seems. Gotta keep the blackout running longer to hit em in their pocketbooks - 2 days they can weather out, indefinite dark they cannot. It's what I've been saying from the beginning, a protest with a clearly defined end date has no teeth.
I've heard about Reddit removing a mod from a popular subreddit, then turning the subreddit public (sorry, don't have the reference). They can always stop the blackout by force. But once they do that, those mods will have definite incentive to start the communities in the fediverse.
I just posted this in response to a frenetic YouTube video that claimed that the Reddit protest "failed":
Get serious. It was NEVER going to stop the IPO. But it has accomplished something even more important: it has decapitated Reddit. A lot of the most passionate and involved users are gone, and more of them have at least tried Fediverse alternatives like Lemmy and kbin. Have you checked those sites out? They're FLOODED with Reddit refugees, and the communities there are booming! They're active and vibrant, with great discussions and content.
What's more, they have hope. The members there aren't subject to some psychotic money-grubbing corporation; if any one server goes authoritarian, there's nothing stopping the users there from just moving to another. They'll have the same access and functionality. And frankly, the odds of a Fediverse server going corporate and having an IPO are infinitesimal. It simply wouldn't be worth it, particularly since there's no way they could stop other instances from defederating with them.
So the outcome of the blackout has been twofold: First, Reddit has lost some of it's best. The quality of content there is diminished, and will continue to diminish as poor quality drives users away. And second, the Fediverse alternatives have been given a huge boost. Almost all users of Reddit are now aware of the ugly truths that underlie that service, and that there are alternatives out there.
That's not failure. That's the seeds of success.
And by the way, I think that's one thing we can all do to help bring down Reddit: mention the great alternatives out there as much as possible to spread the word. The more Redditors who learn that they don't have to be a product to be sold by the pound for the stockholder class, the quicker Reddit will fall!
I also bet there are people who haven't already left that will abandon ship once the TPAs stop working. It's not going to be fun getting stuck with their mediocre app, particularly since they seem to be testing the end of the mobile site.
This. For a lot of people Reddit isn't reddit.com, it's Apollo or Relay or Sync or Reddit Is Fun.
After the apps stop working, they won't be able to keep using the thing they're used to. They can't just go back, they'll have to switch to something different.
It's disappointing to see some of the larger subreddits going public with a 'what's the point?' tone. Most are staying private, but some aren't. As if Reddit doesn't exist solely because of its user generated content. If enough subs permanently shut down they'll have to reconsider their API position.
I decided to write a message to subreddits I've been lurking for years via messaging the mods saying how vitally important it is for subreddits to protest right now, at this critical time, before it's too late. I've politely implored them to continue the protest saying how these API changes with have a long-lasting, permanent impact on Reddit as a platform for the worse.
I'd suggest you guys come up with your own letter template and message the mods of those subreddits in polite form. It'd be great if we can convince these exceptions to go private again. I also understand some moderators may be afraid Reddit will just replace them with mods willing to reopen the sub, so I added a section saying it they're treated like that, Reddit don't deserve their time and maybe they should consider rebuilding elsewhere if that happens. Its their prime chance to stand up for the right thing right now for the future of Reddit.
I used Reddark to determine which subreddits to contact. I'd say only contact hobbyist ones such as sports rather than more politically-inclined ones like Ukraine that have a fair reason to stay open. Also some subreddits have made poll posts asking their users if they should go private like Gaming and NotTheOnion, so please don't message those ones.
I agree with everything you’ve said and that it is disappointing. I do think there is merit in continuing to protest and send a message.
However, I don’t think there’s anything that can move the Reddit leadership team back. Because even if they went back on this API issue, the continued process of the degradation of reddit as a service has been a long term thing. It seems to me that the Fidelity downgrade of their evaluation has pushed them even further down this path.
I truly am done with them. Even if they come back from all this, what’s left there? Somebody else pointed out that over the year, generally interactions became more unfriendly on reddit, spam and changes to the algorithm increasingly pushed away from the platform we all loved.
I see this situation and how it was so exacerbated by Spez and the leaderships absolute failure as a blessing. There’s a lot of alternative ways to spend time on the internet, to connect and learn. Beehaw has been really good to me the last couple days, I am excited for a future here and ready to not contribute toward the mess that reddit has become anymore.
It's become increasingly clear that Steve and his cronies are desperately trying to get Reddit to its IPO with value intact so they can cash out and leave someone else holding the bag. As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if he and others end up shorting Reddit.
What the big subreddits don't realise is, on Fediverse many of their subreddits have not yet been recreated. If they don't do it, someone else will and then they come in as just contributors. So may be in their interests to actually establish a presence, and gauge how much take-up they get.
I don't know how to make this not about me. So, I'm just going to say it. Friday I closed a 13 year old Reddit account. Saturday and Sunday I brought up multiple Fediverse servers. I now have Mastodon, Lemmy, PixelFed, Owncast, and NextCloud working. I have yet to get Element Chat and PeerTube running. They will happen by Friday. When I opened my Owncast I killed my Twitch account. When PeerTube is up and running I drop YouTube. My point is, I want to thank Reddit for providing me the motivation to leave corporate social media and switch to my own platform. I'm not going back... I'm going forward.
Still holding strong and staying here. Might as well get it over with though, as once RIF is dead, I wouldn't be browsing reddit anyway.
Stayed off Reddit completely for the last 2 days but checked back in in a couple of the smaller subs I browse today. But I have found I am checking back in here on Lemmy more even now that all the Reddit subs I usually post in are back open. This really feels like a viable alternative to me.
I decided to jump before I was pushed and bin off Apollo the weekend before the strikes started. This place existing made that jump a lot easier I think!
I am fascinated by how the experience of other people can be completely different from mine, alien even. We can look at the same situation and come up with exactly opposite conclusions. I keep trying to put myself in the shoes of the other, figure out how they think. The behavior of u/spez is abhorent to me, but here's how I would imagine he thinks about the community list of demands:
Bringing the API pricing down to the point ads/subscriptions could realistically cover the costs.
The costs are reasonable and down to earth! We've been extremely generous. Our prices are in line with industry standards. The app devs are greedy and do not want to pay. In fact they are so greedy they are choosing to shut down and go out of business rather than pay their fair share! Also some apps are ahem inefficient. Those devs could stay profitable if they just code their apps better.
Reddit gives the apps time to make whatever adjustments are necessary
The apps had plenty of time. We've been perfectly transparent. The API changes were announced months in advance. The first bills do not arrive until months from now in August, and are not due for another month after that. The apps have enough time if they are serious about working with us.
Rate limits would need to be per user+appkey, not just per key.
Rate limits are for the free tier. The paid tier is a flat fee per 1000 API calls without rate limit.
Commitment to adding features to the API; image uploads/chat/notifications.
We are always working on new and exciting features! We have so many mod tools in the pipeline. All the hottest features will appear in our native app first, which is where we can best ensure everything stays compatible. Have you tried using that?
Lack of communication. Why were disabled communities not contacted to gauge the impact of these API changes?
We are always in communication with our communities! We've been discussing these API changes for months, collecting community input, and interacting with our users in AMAs!
You say you've offered exemptions for "non-commercial" and "accessibility apps." Despite r/blind's best efforts, you have not stated how they are selected.
We communicate with developers on an app-by-app basis. We have already confirmed the inclusion of two accessibility apps! We support accessibility for blind people!
Parity in access to NSFW content
Cannot be done for lawyercat reasons.
Now that we have addressed all of the listed community concerns, we are looking forward to welcoming all of you back to reddit!
</AH mode>
P.S. the fact that u/spez specifically stated that "old.reddit.com isn’t going anywhere" confirms in my mind that old.reddit will be gone within 9 months. Screenshot this.
old.reddit.com isn’t going anywhere
"We are keeping it right here on our servers and it's not going over the internet to your browser."
Once old Reddit goes leaving is not a matter of choice for me.
For me its really exciting. it is like watching history happen. I am really glad the people have managed to come together for something important.
Many subreddits are holding polls on whether they should continue the blackout. For those who are boycotting Reddit, I would highly encourage you to go vote. Even if you plan to leave Reddit for good, a longer blackout will drive more users here.
There are over 6000 subreddits that still aren't public. Like looks like Reddit is over waiting for them to come back online. https://famichiki.jp/@Tsutsuku/110537730270070245
This was a predicted outcome, at least for the larger subreddits. Expect to hear much more of this in the coming couple of days.
Gods of the Internet, with this offering I ask you to summon Cerf, Torvalds, and Stallman so that they may witness this curse. By the spirits of my ancestors I curse Reddit. Let its profits wither. Let its networks crack. Let it see its legions of users disperse. Gods of the Inferno, I offer to you its networks, its mouthpiece, its servers, its "free" speech, its hands, its liver, its black heart, its stomach. Gods of the Inferno, let me see Reddit suffer deeply, and I will rejoice and sacrifice to you.
https://blackout.photon-reddit.com/
There's a bit of a gap in the data but despite some subs coming back online, it seems the number of comments has more or less stayed at the levels of the last 2 days.
I accidentally posted this outside the megathread — reposting here to help make life easier for the mods:
https://mods.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/16693988535309
Reddit attempting to offer free API usage for moderator tools (but not 3rd Party Apps)
They've now added that "non-commercial" qualifier to accessibility apps and mod tools. So they're totally cool with 3rd parties adding value to their platform. As long as all of the revenue resulting from that unpaid work goes straight to Reddit.
I like how they state the following:
As of July 1, 2023, we are increasing the API limits for our free API usage from 60 to 100 Queries Per Minute for those using OAuth authentication.
They're making it sound like they're increasing the rate limit, whereas they're actually changing it from 60 queries per user per application per minute to 100 queries per application per minute. So if you had a 3rd party app with 1000 users, you'd have 60 queries each minute for every single user, now all those 1000 users will have to share 100 queries each minute (so that'd be 1 query per user every 10 minutes), unless the app developer is willing to pay up.
I do not cross picket lines. Later this week, once the protest is officially over, I plan on going on Reddit, backing up my data using the PowerDeleteSuite another user posted about, and then overwriting and deleting my comments and posts with a message about the protest, before closing my account entirely.
Lemmy has already grown a nice community of people, and I'll be glad to contribute and watch it grow over time!
Holding strong on not returning to reddit. Using Jeroba for Lemmy for any free time I get, been enjoying it
The way Reddit has handled this has been so disappointing. Aaron Swartz been rolling over but man look what Reddit has become. I believe now more than ever that any site that revolves around a community should be in the hands of said community and not corporations or else this eventually happens. Corporations need to produce profit to survive but when we're talking spaces for open discussion that more often than not works against the very community that makes up the content.
I believe now more than ever that any site that revolves around a community should be in the hands of said community and not corporations or else this eventually happens
This is how it used to be before the internet for most people basically became five websites run by enormous faceless data mines. Forums/bulletin boards/IRC channels used to be run by the community for the community and in my opinion the internet was better for it. Sure you’d get the odd flame war or power-tripping mod, but it was super common for a large portion of the community to just up sticks and start a new forum somewhere else if it became too much of a problem. Then Reddit killed most of the hobbyist forums stone dead. There’s nothing to go back to so we have to start fresh. But honestly, I’m here for it. I’m tired of being the product for a bunch of advertisers. Take me back to 2004.
I think I'm happy with the outcome. People were always looking for an alternative to Reddit and all that was missing was critical mass. Now the alternatives are totally usable outside of small niches which will catch up eventually.
Reddit is definitely shitting its pants. They used to have zero direct competitors.
I couldn’t agree more. This situation made very clear what writing is on the wall for reddit. I don’t care if people go back, it hasn’t been the reddit I knew and cared about for a long time.
To all the people saying “oh well this won’t replace reddit,” I wouldn’t want it to. Reddit has changed.
Here’s to new beginnings
Can anyone tell me what the "196" community is? If I sort my feed by All, it gives me a ton of memes from there but I can't tell what it is.
Left wing queer safe shitposting
If you're considering leaving Reddit, consider also salting the earth on your way out.
Check out PowerDeleteSuite, a Chrome* plugin that can edit/delete posts in a user’s history. https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
Just follow the install instructions on the page and let it rip. You can act on or exempt specific subs, act on age, exempt by status, etc. It will also export deleted and modified comments to a CSV for your own use.
I nuked my accounts, editing all comments to “This comment has been deleted in protest of the Reddit API changes of June 2023. Consider visiting Lemmy.world or Kbin.social for an alternative news source.”
I’ll probably go back in on the 29th or 30th and delete everything before closing the accounts.
worked on Chromium for me. Never had success with Firefox, and I don’t touch Edge.
(Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with this project)
Discussion: I arrived at posting this after some soul-searching about destroying inforamtion. In the end, my contributions were derivative from still-extant and viable sources, while I consider Reddit to be a lost cause. I decided it was more abhorrent to me that they continue to profit off the back of my freely-contributed content than to reclaim my contributions, and rehost those contributions at a later date under a more friendly banner.
That was my calculus. You, reader, are welcome respectfully to disagree.
I visited Reddit for the first time in two days and had a thought that has occurred to me constantly for years, "I hate this site." It's still the same alienating crap and it will never change. I glanced over my home page, made a comment about the fediverse being a better alternative in a blackout thread for one of my subs that came back, and popped back here.
I think the best thing that protesting redditors can do now (if they haven't already) is delete all of their content on the platform. Not before backing it up to post on Lemmy, of course.
I like reddit. I want its fun little spaces to thrive.
Reddit is making this really difficult.
The suits are all about their metrics and engagement and clicks and they don't care about the user. They don't even care about the peeps they hire to talk to the user.
I'm told sometimes admin employees find out they're fired because they can't log in to workspaces anymore.
I dunno.
Maybe this space is better. :)
I've been a lot more active on Beehaw over the past few days than on Reddit. Tried to get into Kbin but the servers have been remarkably unstable and I don't like the fact that you can only view 25 comments at once.
I think a lot of subreddits will fold. Your typical reddit moderator is hungry for power and having that power taken away from them is probably more terrifying to them than losing Apollo/RIF/BaconReader/Sync/Relay.
Just found out that that mod changed their mind and decided to go dark anyway, and was promptly removed by Reddit. Well, I guess they *did* see it coming!