this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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By Henri Astier BBC News


Israel has suggested that the long-term aim of its military campaign in Gaza is to sever all links with the territory.

Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant said that once Hamas had been defeated, Israel would end its "responsibility for life in the Gaza Strip".

Before the conflict, Israel supplied Gaza with most of its energy needs and monitored imports into the territory.

...

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[–] wjrii@kbin.social 74 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Okay, so surely that will also involve removing the maritime blockade and giving Gazans responsibility for the land border with Egypt, RIGHT?

Though even if it did, I would tend to think that the flip side would be increased settlement and repression in the West Bank.

[–] MxM111@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If there is no Hamas in power, why would they have continued blockade?

[–] NewDark@lemmings.world 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (16 children)

Tell me this, place yourself in the shoes of an average Gazan at the age of 18. With all the destruction, violence, and oppression you've witnessed, would you not become a "terrorist" against your oppressor? There won't be an end to Hamas without an end of the abysmal material conditions and violence. Hamas was literally funded and legitimized by Israel to manufacture consent for their ethnic clensing campaign.

They will continue to blockade as long as Palestinians exist, I gaurentee it.

[–] kromem@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Tell me this, place yourself in the shoes of an average Vietnamese at the age of 18 (in 1974). With all the destruction, violence, and oppression you've witnessed, would you not become a 'terrorist' against your oppressor?"

Feel free to replace with Japanese in the US in 1945 in interment camps, or Jews in Europe in 1945, or Mexicans in the 1930s, etc.

There's quite a lot of populations throughout history that have been harmed by others, and yet within a generation live in peace next to them. People of the generation that were harmed often have prejudice and distrust towards those who carried out the harm, but rarely themselves harm in turn.

Don't normalize terrorism and violence targeting civilians. It's not a normal part of the cycle of things, and the exceptional factor here is religious orthodoxy, which does have a long history across many forms of barbarism carried out on innocents.

If we want peace in the middle east, the only path to it is promoting atheism in the middle east.

Because as history has shown over and over and over, you are 100% wrong about what humans might do to one another in retribution when the self-righteous entitlement to harm one another religion provides is taken out of the picture.

[–] NewDark@lemmings.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

There's so many problems with this take.

  • I absolutely sympathize with the Vietnamese cause during that war. The United States were LITERALLY the invaders and deserved retaliation / defense.
  • Gaza has been an open air prison for 16 years, with horrifying material conditions, which is precisely WHY the average age is 18. Here's a short that explains them as concisely as I've seen. I would 100% sympathize with Japanese or Jewish terrorism under that level of barbarity. Also, to be clear, those camps in all those situations were wrong. Are you defending them?
  • West Bank, which has no Hamas, is still an apartheid state where the people who are acting with the Israelis are STILL GETTING FUCKED OVER by Israel and subjected to settler colonial terrorism.
  • Obviously I don't like terrorism as a method, but at a certain point, it becomes the only option. Peaceful protests have been met with bullets and international silence. See the Great March of Return, 13,000 Palestinians wounded and 1,400 killed. What's the lesson there do you think?

This is primarily not a religious conflict, it's territorial and racial.

Please tell me you would be super chill with having your home stolen by some fucking white guy from Brooklyn because the newly formed government wants to form an ethnostate, because I sure fucking wouldn't be.

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[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (6 children)

The harm has to stop before anyone lives together though... Also Jews did rise up against Hitler's regime several times but weren't successful.

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[–] Seudo@lemmy.world 66 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Half the population are children, most of whom will dedicate their life to a blood feud.

[–] White_Flight@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

lol the kids in Palestine already dedicate their life to blood feud.

this whole situation is sad, and cannot be summed up on an internet post.

this ancient blood feud will continue long after you and I are converted to fossil fuels

[–] BoostWillis@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ethnic cleansing is bad and a nation descended from Holocaust survivors should know better. Unfortunately that nation is ruled by a far right government intent on finishing the job their grandparents started in 1948.

Here in the US, our ancestors shot their foreign occupying soldiers over a lot less, and rightfully so.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 15 points 1 year ago

Let's not forget the native Americans who resisted their oppressors, and were ethnically cleansed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

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[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Trump: "If I lose, you'll never see me again."

Israel: "If we get rid of Hamas, we won't have to blockade Gaza anymore."

[x] Doubt

[–] Copernican@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Read the article. It sounds like they want to be off the hook for providing necessary infrastructure and services to Gaza and other occupied territories.

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[–] ShroOmeric@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They stole all the resources and then they make it look like they're doing a favor to give something back. Shameful.

[–] yoz@aussie.zone 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] lazynooblet@lazysoci.al 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm British and this made me sadlaugh

[–] yoz@aussie.zone 5 points 1 year ago
[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 72 points 1 year ago (11 children)

It's disengenuous. People complain about Gaza not having enough of its own water or electricity infrastructure and relying on Israel, but up until now Israel has required Gaza to get their permission on any new construction. So Israel have been holding Gaza hostage via water and now they're cutting them off and making excuses for it.

[–] mwguy@infosec.pub 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It doesn't help when the government in the region digs up infrastructure to construct weapons with and makes hype videos about it.

[–] NewDark@lemmings.world 18 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Man good point. Glad the Israelis aren't using any weapons that are disproportionately more effective on a captive populace. The prisoners shouldn't fight back against their oppressor through whatever desperate means they have available. Please die and suffer in silence, Palestinians.

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[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

That's very true, however I don't believe Gaza had sufficient water supplies even before then.

The whole issue is a mess, with so many bad actors on both sides.

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[–] MxM111@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

When the ruling party have publicly stated and action supported main goal in destruction of Jewish state, it is called security measure.

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[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago (22 children)

Destroy people's homes, utilities, food, etc, then pulling out and saying "not my problem" while people die from lack of basic necessities and medical care as a result of Israel's destruction and Israel does a pikashocked face while continuing to do whatever they can to limit aid getting in still seems pretty bad. Like, better than stealing the Territory...

[–] MxM111@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It is a long term goal, not immediate goal. Having Palestine state (without Hamas) responsible for itself is a good thing.

[–] buzziebee@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Seeing promising things about a 2 state solution being discussed at the Cairo peace summit. Let's hope after the violence cooler heads prevail and we can see a lasting peace in the region.

[–] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I would just expect another militant group to take their place. Every bombing essentially creates a new radicals. Would you really expect Palestinians to just forget about all their dead realitives?

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[–] anteaters@feddit.de 14 points 1 year ago

Well it'll be a DMZ inside Gaza with a very hard border that nothing may cross so it will all be Egypt's problem.

[–] hark@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 7 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant said that once Hamas had been defeated, Israel would end its "responsibility for life in the Gaza Strip".

On Friday, Mr Gallant told a parliamentary committee that the first stage of the campaign was meant to destroy Hamas's infrastructure, according to a statement from his office.

The US and Egypt have reached a deal allowing some supplies to start bringing relief Gaza's 2.2 million residents.

An initial convoy of 20 trucks had been expected to enter southern Gaza through the Rafah border crossing on Friday, but they are still stuck on the Egyptian side.

Meanwhile Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has confirmed that he will join several world leaders at a summit in Cairo on Saturday aimed at achieving a ceasefire.

The event, hosted by Egyptian President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi, will involve talks on trying to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict based on a two-state solution.


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