this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
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Summary

Ukraine fired US-made ATACMS missiles into Russia’s Bryansk region, marking the first time Ukraine has used these longer-range weapons to strike targets deep inside Russia.

The attack comes after the Biden administration authorized Ukraine to use these weapons against targets inside Russia.

In response, President Putin updated Russia’s nuclear doctrine, labeling aggression from non-nuclear states supported by nuclear powers as a joint attack on Russia.

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[–] perestroika@lemm.ee 42 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Some notes, to help folks stay better informed:

  • Ukraine has been firing ATACMS into "Russia" (occupied and annexed Crimea) for a good year already, without World War 3 breaking out

  • Ukraine has its own missiles too (mostly cruise, not ballistic, but they had at least a few dozen Soviet-made "Tochka" SRBMs) and they've been firing those at high value targets in Russia from day one of getting invaded, it's simply that their supplies of Tochka have almost entirely run out, and their home-grown missile industry is a big fat target for Russian attacks (despite which Ukraine produces missiles, but currently not ballistic missiles of a practically usable sort)

  • ATACMS is effective and practical, with a cluster warhead it has shown ability of taking out Russian air defense batteries (S-400 and such), which are difficult targets to attack

  • this time too, air defense failed to stop them and they caused secondary detonations at a large ammunition storage site

  • since Russia is still attempting to conquer Ukraine, now with added North Korean soldiers sent by their dictator, there continues to be plentiful ground for other countries to supply Ukraine with more advanced stuff to fire at the invaders, lest they invade more of Ukraine or start invading elsewhere

  • foreign ballistic missiles that Russia has fired into Ukraine include North Korean and Iranian missiles, so foreign-made BMs flying about is ordinary stuff in this war

[–] TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 64 points 4 days ago (4 children)

I wonder what the mental calculus about this is, considering that Biden knows a fucking moron is going to have to handle the fallout

[–] calabast@lemm.ee 121 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I think he know Trump is going to help Russia in every way possible, so he might as well let Ukraine get since more serious hits in now while they can

[–] Quill7513 53 points 4 days ago (1 children)

yeah… with ukraine already talking diplomatic peace talks, i think they're just trying to use the next 60 days to get the best possible terms

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

Pretty sure Zelensky is just trying to keep a lid on Trump and appear high minded to other western governments. Then when Russia's demands are ridiculous he can point to them and go back to fighting with more support.

[–] hddsx@lemmy.ca 31 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Russia says there’s going to be no peace talks without recognizing the new boundaries so, might as well carve out a big part of Russia for the Ukraine

[–] Quill7513 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Ukraine*. "the Ukraine" is an outdated term coined by people who never recognized Ukraine's cultural sovereignty

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

"The Ukraine" and "Kiev" were two outdated 80s terms I had to update in my head when the war started.

[–] Quill7513 4 points 3 days ago

one of my best friends told me in 2020 it hurt her feelings a little when people used the term. not because they hurt her feelings, but because it meant societally, our understanding of her and her family's struggles came predominantly from people who hated them. it's worth relearning for the people it effects.

[–] yournamehere@lemm.ee 2 points 3 days ago

thats the spirit.

[–] tekato@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Biden knows

Well…

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 13 points 3 days ago

It's blindingly obvious that Ukraine has full rights to do this and its allies have the right to support them in it.

[–] modifier@lemmy.ca 17 points 3 days ago (2 children)
[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Pork butts? Mmmmm

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I moved my car several times in the time it took for this to happen. How about approve things, fire the weapons and then wait 3 days to let everyone know?

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Ya, at least they didn't leak they were permitted to hit more than Kurdk oblast.

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

If that was me, I would launch directly into the Kremlin and putin's mansions.

[–] foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

thanks that you are not in the position to escalate the imperial shit show into a full blown nuclear mess.