this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2024
119 points (96.1% liked)

MeanwhileOnGrad

1357 readers
130 users here now

"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"

Welcome to MoG!

Meanwhile On Grad

Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!

What is a Tankie?

Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.

(caution of biased source)

Basic Rules:

Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. β€” Basically, don't be a dick.

Hate-Speech β€” You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.

Apologia β€” (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.

Revisionism β€” No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.

Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.

Off-topic Discussion β€” Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.

You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
goat@sh.itjust.works
PugJesus@lemmy.world
119
Hexbear's admin twisting reality (and we haven't defederated them yet πŸ˜‹) (jlai.lu)
submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by Snoopy@jlai.lu to c/meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
50 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

The original french post that motivated hexbear's decision : https://jlai.lu/post/11504685

There is already various posts here giving us reasons to defederate them, one of them calling to violence against french :

https://jlai.lu/post/11622072?scrollToComments=true

On jlai.lu :

Dessalines, one of Lemmy main developper is taking part :

Some of hexbear supporter denying being part of an attack without any apologies :

Should we support Lemmy or migrate to another software as Mbin, piefed, sublinks ? Time will tell.

Mbin

Piefed

Sublinks

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] oce@jlai.lu 55 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

"reactionay" = going against their tankie ideology.
Eventually, it's a good thing they decide to delist the instance (while jlailu is discussing it too), it will reduce useless conflicts.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 37 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I love it when they say reactionary. It's the ultimate projection. Like reactionaries are exactly what they are, urging to return to Soviet-era communism.

their only idols are long-dead dictators or people who want to return to how things previously were. Like Winnie the Pooh wanting Taiwan to return to China

Reactionaries full and through

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 11 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah I came to comment that 'reactionary' as a reason. Their instance has a lot of reactionary content, not to make a blanket statement of all. Sounds like a pot calling kettle.

[–] RunawayFixer@lemmy.world 45 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

As Hexbear becomes increasingly isolated, more and more of their users will start making accounts on other instances. After migrating, they'll still have their toxic post truth discource, but they'll be harder to identify at a glance. I'm definitely not against cutting ties with Hexbear, I was in favor of it when Lemmy world did it. But now I'm dreading the thought of those users trickling back into my feed one by one. For my personal Lemmy experience, the existence of Hexbear was great in that it kept so many toxic people contained in a place away from me.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 39 points 3 weeks ago

Deplatforming works. Some Hexbear users might trickle away, but the inconvenience of needing two accounts discourages most of the casual dogpile trolls.

[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 38 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I highly doubt there's much more migration than before. Hexbear existed as a standalone site with no federation for years before the reddit apiocalypse caused the mass migration to Lemmy.

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

They spawned from CTH on Reddit getting banned into dirt years ago. That's actually a good chunk of how Lemmy came to be in the first place iirc. Hexbear has been on Lemmy for years, but only because they socially-squeezed themselves off of reddit with their classic "style".

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

They truly are redditors

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 8 points 2 weeks ago

It goes beyond that, when people use Redditor as a slam, these are the people that are being invoked.

These are the cretins that are universally-laughable.

[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Sure, but my whole point was that you can't exactly expect defederation to impact their culture in any meaningful way considering being completely defederated was the status quo.

[–] oce@jlai.lu 27 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If they join another instance, they will not benefit from as much local support, the social pressure will eventually discourage them, and they will probably just go back to using only their local bubble.

[–] KinglyWeevil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 2 weeks ago

Their time in isolation from when reddit banned chapo did them no favors. When it was banned it was a flavor of radicalism that was tolerable.

They've devolved into something much worse, in the style of the red guard in China killing avowed communists for not being communist enough, and thinking it's a good thing. They're just screaming into the void making all leftists look unreasonable and bad, and wondering why no one can stand them.

I've yet to have an interaction with someone from hexbear post reddit exodus where I thought to myself, "you know I bet they're pretty chill in real life."

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 17 points 3 weeks ago

They already do that. They do it a lot on Reddit.

I know some of them who have like five reddit alts they cycle through in a single week. Truly bizarre

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 16 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If they keep their attitude they'll be kicked off most instances, generally they won't be able to circlejerk so after a while I'd expect them to self-isolate again.

[–] RunawayFixer@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

You're probably right. Case in point: Linkerbaan was eventually banned, although it did take a long time.

The opinions on this were interesting. My simplified take: One person thinks it's even worse than I thought. One person thinks it's not going to be a problem in the first place. And 3 persons think that it's a problem that will resolve itself, so no reason to worry.

[–] Skunk@jlai.lu 32 points 3 weeks ago

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 17 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Fantastic post! thank you!

[–] Saledovil@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Eh, it's open source, which intrinsically limits the power the devs have over the software.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

It's open source, yeah, but is there much of a future in it? Lemmy as a whole doesn't make a whole lot of original content.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 18 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

This is not a software issue. We would be facing the same problem on Piefed or Mbin

[–] Snoopy@jlai.lu 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

True and i wrote this post, so i also play a part in this. I'm pondering. We could fork it and separate politic and software. We can also choose our server wich is awesome and thank to Lemmy's dev.

Currently, i'm hesitating because Dessalines is the admin of Lemmy.ml, even tough it's not the biggest instance i consider it as the flagship instance of lemmy.

We did the same debate long ago on Reddit and Lemmy.world. I'm switching my opinion because of Dessalines's participation. I'm less neutral about it.

Another reason, i think those software, even if piefed and sublinks are still beta, are better than Lemmy.

[–] Camus@jlai.lu 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Another reason, i think those software, even if piefed and sublinks are still beta, are better than Lemmy.

Regarding apps support alone Lemmy is miles ahead the others

Edit: mobile apps

[–] Snoopy@jlai.lu 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I think there are Pros and Cons.They benefit from an huge community, there is lot help on their Matrix channel and we are available.

I think Mbin has a strong support too. Other, aren't ready for production (i haven't tried to install one yet) but the way they present their project is crystal clear.

Does Piefed also offer a good support if i take a glance on their communitie ?

And the fact Piefed is working since the beggining on a moderation board show they understand well what is at stake on the web.

We still can't add moderator correctly and an admin can delete communities easily without warning.

[–] Camus@jlai.lu 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I meant mobile apps

[–] Snoopy@jlai.lu 4 points 3 weeks ago

Sorry, i completly misunderstood and answered off the mark. 😰

Yeah lemmy has the best app support. ☺️

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 weeks ago

It depends on where you look. For instance, this is new content.

Also the Star Trek community here is wild.

[–] Saledovil@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 weeks ago

It's a link aggregator, so generating original content is not really its purpose.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

definitely see Lemmy dying off with how shitty the devs are

We had a similar conversation yesterday already, but I don't get the hate towards them as devs. As instance admins, probably, but as devs, what better alternative do we have?

[–] socsa@piefed.social 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Dessalines is just so cringe I find myself unable to separate the art from the person. And Nutonic is just a transphobe.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 3 points 2 weeks ago

I hope you enjoy Piefed!

[–] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

What do they expect an admin to do with their user? It's not our job to treat them like a school children.

Also what's the progress of sublink? Didn't heard from it for a while.

[–] Snoopy@jlai.lu 13 points 3 weeks ago

I updated my post so you can check their progress :)

[–] Camus@jlai.lu 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What do they expect an admin to do with their user? It’s not our job to treat them like a school children.

If not, then how come an admin can ban a user?

[–] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 3 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Because they breaching the common rule? Or being a spam account? Being reactionary is usually not a ban-able offence, and we admin isn't here to control and fine tune how everyone act to a specific way.

I mean, if you or any other admin want to do that, feel free, but i ain't got time for that, and i trust you adult for solving common conflict yourself.

[–] Camus@jlai.lu 19 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They called to violence and insulted our members several times in the first thread linked in the OP https://jlai.lu/post/11504685

If Jlailu members had done the same on another instance's meta community we would have acted on it.

I see where you come from, we don't monitor everything that our members do, but this was a large scale event with dozens of people taking part and 248 comments.

[–] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Then yes, it fall under the rule as brigading. I definitely would ban anyone calling for it.

[–] Camus@jlai.lu 11 points 2 weeks ago

Glad to see we agree

[–] Snoopy@jlai.lu 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Altought it is due to a lack of people, i think it also point out the lack of a moderation board with various role to fill.

Several role are missing so our job tend to overlap.

We could do something like this :

  • sysop : server
  • admin : oversee all communities and subcription
  • modo : oversee one or several communities
  • mediation team : manage communities well-being
  • animators : create post, event...

In our case, our (modo)admins would delete these as they oversee the whole server.

[–] sjmarf@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Unfortunately it looks like SubLinks is mostly dead. They haven’t made any changes to the code since August

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 7 points 2 weeks ago

I definitely wouldn't hold my breath. Piefed is much more promising

[–] SharkAttak@kbin.melroy.org 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And yet when you point out that the main devs of lemmy are also mods on those instances, some people don't see a problem..

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 7 points 2 weeks ago

How is the mobile app support on Mbin?

People are aware, but Lemmy is still the most feature rich software at the moment

[–] naeap@sopuli.xyz 7 points 2 weeks ago

I'm not a fan of defederation in general, because I think, communication can break down barriers, and we need to confront differences and not build further fronts - as this would only help fascist regimes like Russia.

But some people seem to only want to troll or keep hanging on some ideology without regard for reality...

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 weeks ago

Two Fascists walk into the bar...

How many communists are in Russia?

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Do any of these alternatives have an ios app, because as soon as they do, I’m switching.

I can’t support an app developed by pro-russians.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 5 points 2 weeks ago

Not at the moment unfortunately. Hopefully that will come soon, especially for Piefed.

[–] zante 1 points 3 weeks ago

That’s hexbear. What they accuse of others, they are themselves.

I’m don’t mind the politics, it lack of awareness

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

How is repeating that "il y a 23 heures" supposed to be insulting? Are they trying to say the post should have been taken down by now?

There are plenty of comments on Hexbear and .ml from some of the very users in the screenshots that should have been taken down yet remain up to this day. They should go back and comment that on their own works of hatred.

[–] Snoopy@jlai.lu 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

They are not repeating "il y a 23 heure".

Those are the public upvote that you can see on Mbin under "favorite" tab. "Il y a 23 heure/11 pm ago" represent the time elapsed since their upvote.

Example here : https://kbin.earth/m/cat@lemmy.world/t/633634/It-is-a-good-day-for-naps/favourites

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Thank you, that makes so much more sense.