I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread. I had no idea this would be such a contentious issue. Future posting about porn compulsions and related communities will be done with more care.
this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2023
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I got a lot of downvotes on Reddit for pointing out that there's no scientific evidence supporting porn addiction. It's just the latest version of religious indoctrination. ISIS was using that as part of their recruitment process: men who are sexually repressed are easier for them to manipulate.
The scientific paper linked from the article, stating there's no evidence for porn addiction, in case anyone would like to read more and missed it.
As with most things, there are a lot of problems with the porn INDUSTRY that we as a society ignore, and instead tell individual people that all the ills are their own fault.
There's problems with pretty much every industry. Welcome to capitalism.
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I guess it makes sense that the psychology community would push back against the claim that pornography fits a scientific definition of addiction. The same deal goes for sugar: many people talk about sugar being addictive, but it's pretty absurd to classify sugar as addictive substance, and the article raises this point very explicitly:
That isn’t to say that people can’t use pornography compulsively, as you may compulsively eat donuts or bacon every day against the best interests of your heart
And that's what most people usually mean when they're addicted to it. So I wouldn't say that it's indoctrination or "hive mind", it's just how people use the word "addiction" in day-to-day, non-scientifically-precise ways. You're absolutely right to point that out because people should not seek addiction treatment for porn consumption, but it's also understandable to seek treatment for compulsive consumption of whatever. Just like sugar and junk food, while the science doesn't say it's addiction, it also presents endless evidence on the negative effects of common patterns of consumption.
Idk just because it's "natural" to compulsively consume such both sugar and porn to classify them as non-addiction is a bit wishy washy and kinda stinks to me.
Humans literally have evolved to consume as much sugar as possible and same goes for porn because the human sexual response can't differentiate between real or fake sexual stimulus. Humans see naked bodies, humans get aroused. No matter wether digital imagery or not.
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Yeah, lay usage of addiction is like lay usage of theory. Very different meanings than the clinical or scientific usage of the terms.
Same, I got in arguments about it. Quoting Wikipedia did not convince them.
Ask any psychiatrist and they will confirm porn is okay.
Imagine the mannosphere and incels being nofap. Imagine all that repressed energy, all this contradiction with their normal nature, just because of beliefs.
That's a good way to brew crazy people.
You mean like it doesn’t exist? Asking that as a genuine question since Terry Crews has talked about his addiction to porn and how it almost ruined his marriage, and it doesn’t seem like a crazy stretch to believe that you can be addicted to porn (or, maybe more accurately, addicted to getting off).
That being said, the NoFap community is pretty fuckin weird and unhealthy as a whole. The stuff like semen retention is unscientifically proven, and treating any orgasm (including from sex) as being bad is just plain dumb. There’s tangible health benefits to jacking off, and I would wager that it’s better to lay off the porn because of how much it can fuckin warp people’s minds about partners and sex (and to help curb an excessive whacking off habit - I mean like “this is interfering with my life” levels).
Nicole Prause, a neuroscientist who researches human sexual behavior at the University of California and the co-author of a recent study on NoFap, believes that there’s no objective basis for pornography addiction, an opinion supported by numerous peer-reviewed studies and experts in the field.
. “If the public uses terms like ‘I’m addicted to chocolate,’ that’s fine. I’m not gonna police language like that,” Prause explained. “But when you use it to refer to a disorder, it has a very specific meaning that pornography just does not fill.”
"Addiction" is a specific word with legal and medical meanings. "Porn addiction" is not recognized as an addiction.
Some porn, along with a myriad of other factors, can contribute negatively to an individual's sexual health. Not all porn is crazy and unrealistic. Not all porn is unhealthy.
Some of the other quotes in the article address how most people who diagnose themselves with "porn addiction" actually have another underlying disorder, often depression or bipolar.
I don't know Crews personally, but I can guarantee a licensed professional did NOT diagnose him with porn addiction. Because that's just not a legitimate diagnosis. The world, and particularly America, has enough issues with mental healthcare. Making up fake disorders to self-diagnose hurts the medical community that's actually trying to help people with real disorders.
Addiction has a very specific clinical meaning as is stated in the article. Porn usage doesn't fit that meaning. That isn't to say that someone cannot compulsively masturbate or watch porn. But, again as stated in the article and a lot of other literature, it doesn't have the same physiological or psychological effects as an addiction. And most of the people doing something compulsively like that are doing it as a symptom of an underlying problem (likely depression in many cases), not as the cause of the problem itself.
In other words, crack and Xanax create a problem. Porn can be used in response to certain psychological problems.
I like Terry Crews. Wholesome guy. But he isn't a doctor or scientist.
"Porn addiction" is actually more like "porn compulsion." Colloquially, compulsions are often called addictions ("video game addiction" is also a compulsion, an addiction would be something like crack) but it's worrying with porn because it's treated as an actual addiction, and the theories behind the modern worries about "porn addiction" are pseudoscience by unqualified people (Gary Wilson and Marnia Robinson) with a very strict idea of what a sexual relationship should look like.
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The basic mechanism of psychological addiction is there: a behaviour that creates an immediate reward.
I think it's a lot like weed or video game addiction.
Is it going to send you to the hospital? Probably not. But if you let it take over your life to the extent that it's detrimental, then using strategies that help people kick physical addictions can be effective.
These religious groups seem to hate a lot of things that appeal to basic pleasures, want to make you feel bad for wanting to feel good.
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One University study suggests that primates have been masturbating for around 40 million years. I think it’s safe to say we’re probably ok beating our meat a little now and then (though obviously excessive masturbation can be an issue). Interestingly, prevalence of masturbation seems to go up with primates in captivity, which to me suggests it’s either a stress response (relieving tension), a reaction to the more limited activities available (boredom), and/or a reaction to the safer environment (more free time not worrying about getting killed).
This last sentence describes highschool.
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This is a typical internet story where a moderate space about reducing porn consumption and then it gets taken over by extremists. NoFap is typical sex negative talk packages for men and young boys for the internet age. It focus on something simple like reducing porn use until it becomes a full sex negative no masturbation's and no sex philosophy.
The shame around masturbation is immense even if you don't get it from church. This is an attack male sexuality and reduces it into a simple phallic centric ejaculation focused instead of a whole body pleasure focused. This also ties really well into a female centric sex negative attack on porn in general which doubles up on the shame on men. The two together help support and create this false "cheating" definition and jealousy of toxic monogamist relationships. The idea that since we are monogamist neither of us has any other attraction is an insane and is impossible for both men and women. This ties into the PIV procreation focused sex that is the only "correct" sex which leads the both people unsatisfied with women's pleasure completely ignored and men's pleasure reduced to a single second and the "thrill of conquest". These dovetail create to shame men for taking care of their own needs with porn and masturbation to focus on guilting and coercing their spouse into giving them low pleasure sex.
Moreover, this is super kink negative with the idea that kinky sex and porn being an escalation and not an innate part of humans sexualities. While men may not be kinkier than women they for sure get their kinks earlier. These kinks are almost explored in a visual medium since most require one or more willing partner and technical skills. These kinks should be explored this way as it starts until all partners find out what they want, learn the technical and emotional skill without causing lasting emotional or physical damage to both partners.
While there are some problems in mainstream porn since its used a replacement for real sex education and is built for some misogynistic viewers. However, there is more ethically created porn out there. Ironically NoFap usually attack the most ethical created porn in OnlyFans which gives the power directly to the female creator instead of the generally male lead mainstream porn industry. Porn is always going to exist and if people actually cared about human trafficking and ethical treatment of women they would support those who create it well.
super kink negative
i just wanted to grab that gem of a phrase for any aspiring blocked-songwriters/band-name-needers
I would listen to Super Kink Negative unless they were a Christian rock band
Their first hit single: "Please, Baby, Come back!" left many new fans wondering: Do we need to order ribs ?
it’s unlikely that PornHub is going to change you from a liker of vanilla sex to a connoisseur of amputee gangbangs—and certainly not in real life.
Challenge accepted!
Porn made me hate most porn. Artificial, misogynist, abuse-fantasy garbage.
There is a ton of loving, clearly consensual stuff out there too.
There is. And I've found a lot of couples that are great. But it's hard to find that amid the millions of "found stepsister asleep" quasi-rape fantasies. And of the ones that do seem loving, it often seems to trend towards the common tropes when they try to make a living at it. So I mostly avoid filmed porn.
I agree, I thank to all real exhibitionist sharing their normal intime moments with us. Professional porn, even more one pretending to be "amateur" is just awful.
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so I was always destined to be a degenerate, it isn’t the internet’s fault?
Just as god always intended, you degenerate
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I'll fap as I please, thanks. You'll have to take it from my cold, dead hands.
If you're still going at it when you're cold and dead, well good job, lich.
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I started having sex more
nice solution, why haven't I come up with that before
in my opinion those wo "celebrate" no-nut-november our whatever this idiotic "event" is called are harming themselves...
Masturbation is a healthy thing, good to relieve stress, good for your health, for you hearth, your prostate...forcing yourself to not relief yourself from time to time by following an internet "movement", is just plain stupid and without any useful result.
So stop doing stuff that you see on degenerated internet platforms like twitter, facebook, instagram or whatever they are called today...
And if you think I'm full of shit, good! Start thinking for yourself or ask people who know what they are talking about, like a freaking doctor...
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