I also find inches easier to work with unless I'm making something with my 3d printer. Fractions are just easier when you're making something big with looser tolerances.

[–] ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

3 2/10 cm is easier than 3.2cm?

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Doing things in 1/16ths of an inch is easier than metric for like woodworking and such IMO. Especially since most tools and materials come in inches here. Until you get into stuff that has tighter tolerances than 1/16th of an inch. Even then you could go to .010s or .001s of an inch but I'm more used to metric at that scale and that's what the applications I use for 3d printing default to.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

1/16 of an inch is slightly smaller than a millimeter, you'd just end up using a millimeter or half again as your tolerance limit.

The big issue with imperial is all the fractions and strange conversions. On more then one occasion I've caught myself mixing up eighths and quarters, because my brain views them more as concepts then as numbers. Which is bigger, 11/16 or 3/4? Now, you'll get the answer, sure, but you had to think about it and it goes against the natural intuition that larger numbers are bigger. Compare that with, which is bigger 0.6875 or 0.75 and it should be trivial to see which is easier to learn and use.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

0.6875 is basically a meaningless concept to me when I try to picture it in my head and what if you need to add it to another dimension? It's not easy to work 4 decimal places in your head. .75 only works because I automatically convert it to 3/4. Maybe it's just something that comes with experience but I don't have trouble with knowing what's what. If your not sure you can always make the denominator equal and figure it that way. 3/4=12/16 for instance. Easy math to do in your head.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sure, but your measuring system dictates what lengths you actually design things to be. You would never actually use 0.6875, but if some jerk designed something with that length, it will be easy to tell exactly how big it was. If you switched to metric, your smallest practical unit for woodworking would almost certainly be a millimeter.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The problem is everything is already built using the imperial measurements. Even if we switched all the new tools and materials over to metric we'd be stuck having to do a bunch of conversions when we're integrating it into existing construction and we'd probably be dealing with that for the rest of our lives.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You're already dealing with it there's loads of stuff that's built in metric, especially everything that's imported. The question is if you want to continue using a system that invites mistakes in order to avoid the pain of switching. The pain will subside pretty quickly, and only come up every time you have to retrofit old construction and whatnot. As the years go on more and more things will be switched until it's rare to see imperial. I lived in a house built in the 1800s, but we still had modern windows and insulation because those things are obviously better and we improved the building when it was convenient and necessary to do so.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What about imperial invites mistakes and what makes you think that there will be fewer mistakes after we switch to metric and now have to use both systems and do messy conversions anytime we are working with pre-existing structures? Retrofitting old construction is basically a constant state of being for me and many others. What do we gain by switching to metric?

[–] Liz@midwest.social 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I once read a proper academic article explaining how Australia saved about 10% on average across their entire economy, largely from fewer mistakes having to be fixed and not having to maintain two sets of tools. However, I can't find it now. This random website will have to do. But essentially, pretty much everyone who switches assumes there's going to be this big cost and hassle and then it turns out they end up saving money and they just kind of quietly forget they ever thought it was going to be a big hassel.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I already don't have to maintain two sets of tools. I would only have to do that if we switched because I would now have to have tools with metric measurements (which would cost me $1000s) for new construction and my old tools for working on existing stuff.

As for that article I don't find many of their arguments to be very convincing especially the numbers they're using to determine costs. The article they used to get the $6, 100,000 figure for the cost of not switching is from 1915 and even allowing for that is largely nonsense. They mention having to educate on the imperial system. The only education I got about the imperial system was during wood shop as an elective and maybe some in math but that was more to demonstrate fractions and using rulers and such, the focus wasn't on the units themselves. We spent far more time learning metric during science class. The main article also mentions that converting to metric will save money but don't explain how this is the case. Then go on to accuse companies that have not changed out their tooling to metric in order to avoid the cost, so it's very inconsistent. The language they use is also very biased.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I mean, you're just going to have to take my word on it about Australia saving 10% until I can dig up that proper article, but here's another article that references American businesses saving money when they switched to metric.

Also, dude, you learned imperial in elementary school. You learned it so early it doesn't feel like you did any learning, but you absolutely spent time on it. I still remember learning all about feet and inches and how to estimate sizes using your body parts (which is a little absurd, considering we were children).

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Again that article doesn't actually cite anything and is very opinionated and vague. Basically saying "trust me bro". Even if those big businesses are saving I very much doubt those savings are going to pass on to the little guy. They breeze right past this part.

What kinds of costs were considered? They included out-of-pocket payments for physical changes in things: for example, modifying scales or buying new ones, altering gasoline pumps, adjusting or replacing machinery, repainting highway signs, rewriting plans and specifications. They also involved intangibles, such as having to learn new words and how to use them, having to work more slowly for a while in order to avoid mistakes, and having to do arithmetic in order to understand an item in the newspaper.

Every tradesman would have to buy all new tools for the metric standard. They'd have to account for mistakes when doing conversions between the new metric stuff when working with an existing construction or carry two sets of tools with them. A corporation might be able to absorb those costs easily enough but for an individual that's going to take a much larger bite out of them.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I dunno what to tell you man, there's a pile of good reasons everyone else has switched to metric, and you're too hung up on climbing over the fence to get to the actual greener grass.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 1 points 5 months ago

Yea, because it would cost me $1000s of dollars for very little benefit for me or others in the same boat. It might save government and big corporations money but for the little guy it's just a bunch of extra work. I'd be interested to know what massive inconvenience not switching is causing the average person.

[–] ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

you don't get it.

your tools and materials will come in metric when everything is metric.

doing things on 1/10 of an inch or 1/10 of a cm is the same as 0.1 inches or 0.1 cm.

1/16 = 0.0625

3/16 of an inch = 0.1875 inches

as in "1/16th" literally means "one divided by sixteen, so do extra math instead of just giving you the real number"

decimal doesn't mean, nor have anything to do with metric.

[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 2 points 5 months ago

you don’t get it. [...] decimal doesn’t mean[...]

No, you're not getting it. 1/16 isn't a function of a decimal system. It's base 2. Primarily because you don't really deal with 1/10th of something, but half of a half sort of stuff.

1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16...

2^-1^, 2^-2^, 2^-3^, 2^-4^...

And base-2 functions make sense in wood working in general because of it's imprecise nature. It's more useful to compare things in halves. A 2x2 piece of wood is not literally 2inches x 2inches. Even in Europe you guys follow weird numbers for finished wood dimensions. It doesn't make sense to have such precision when nothing about it is precise.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

So I have to throw out all my stuff and spend $1000s on new tools?

You don't work in 1/10ths of an inch. It's 1/16ths and that that's where the math ends. You don't need to convert it to decimal. Unless you're doing machining which you do work in .0001ths due to the tighter tolerances and I've already agreed you might as well use metric for that.

[–] ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

you're talking about two or three different, unrelated things.

decimals vs fractions - you're whining that 1/16 gives you more leeway, but too stupid to realise that 1/10 is less precise and is the same as 0.1

So either you're happy with less precision - and decimals are good, or you want more precision - and decimals are still good.

Again - absolutely nothing to do with metric. You can convert 3 3/4 inches to 3.75 inches, 3 12/16ths or 3 7.5/10ths of an inch. They're all the same thing and all imperial.

Tools. The topic is "using metric". Once you have all metric tools, then it doesn't matter. You're trying to change the topic to buying new tools. Unrelated. Using a tool vs shopping like a princess for new toys. We're talking about using tools.
but hey, while we're on the topic of how dumb you are, let's keep using what you say against you. You keep saying "it doesn't have to be that accurate" well, okay then. then get a sharpie, write the approximate metric conversion on the side and get on with your life. A 5 minute job for someone who I presume can write numbers and count to ten?
I knew there were more. What you don't get, what you keep missing, is that 1/16 is smaller than 1/10. that means your bitching about "tighter tolerances" applies more to dicking about with 1/16ths instead of 1/10s (which again, is decimals, nothing to do with metric)

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If you can't have a civil conversation without insults I'm not going to bother with you anymore. We're talking about units of measurement, there's no reason to be an asshole. Go fuck yourself.

[–] ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

yes, we are talking about units of measurement, which is why you talking about fractions is irrelevant. Thank you for agreeing with me.

jeezus chris on a cracker you're a slow one.